Discussions

The Devil

Posted Dec. 8, 2013 by frequencytuner in Open

commented on Dec. 17, 2013
by mrmathew1963

Quote

24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5mYFJ4irxM

Reference to: History of the Devil

Highly recommended to watch the documentary prior to commenting.

In an attempt to unite the contrasting and varying degrees of understanding of topics discussed on these boards, including some of the internal dissension I have witnessed recently, I would like to post this video as simply something to think about and share comments and insights, including - especially and specifically - how we individually witness the "devil" within ourselves.

  • 24 Comments  
  • mrmathew1963 Dec 17, 2013

    G’day frequencytuner

    Yes, acceptance is very hard concept to follow but every time where not accepting this denotes the ego being in control. What is happening when we become upset when an atrocity was or is being committed? We find out we have no control or are fearful of certain events being committed so we get upset. Why do we have to be in control? The funny thing is we don’t have to be in control, this is the fallacy that has been brought down through the ages.

    I’m still controlled by the ego to a certain extent however while I was working in the welfare arena I realised the ego wasn’t as controlling because I didn’t smash the child molesters in the face & in fact understood they were also victims of circumstance. We are all victims of our societies circumstances which like you have pointed out have come down through the ages.

  • frequencytuner Dec 17, 2013

    I personally find acceptance the most difficult thing to sit with, especially the things that make me feel uneasy: case in point, Monsanto, Federal Reserve, Exopolitics, Manhattan Project, Halliburton etc. It is hard to find that silver lining on some topics and events, like the BP oil spill a few years ago or the genocides taking place daily around the world. Knowledge can be a curse, especially the fact that once you know: you can't un-know.

    I have dedicated a great deal of energy seeking out and digging up the ugliest parts of human nature simply to expose them to myself and ask myself why: why do we do this to each other, to the planet, to animals? Why are we so cruel? The concept of contrast does it's part to illuminate the darkness, yet it does not quell the deep anguish I feel.

    I ask myself, "What would Jesus Do?" This usually inspires a wise response coupled with a painful and difficult task. Recognizing that, when I look in the mirror - Hitler, Ghengis Khan, Ghandi, Marilyn Manson, Charles Manson, J.P. Morgan, Bill Cosby, Bob Marley, Beethoven, Kurt Cobain, Paul Walker, Nelson Mandela: and every other person to experience this thing called "life on Earth" - have all played a part in making me who I am whether I realize it or not. The great challenge is realizing how an accepting it, especially the ugly parts most people choose to ignore.

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 16, 2013

    G'day frequencytuner

    I usually relate & relay what I have actually experienced.

    No one is to blame for their actions in full even multinationals who destroy for material gain, it's all a part of the system we are all brought up in & this is ware awareness helps spiritual or not.

    I think working within the welfare arena has given me an understanding & acceptance of others other people would love to string up & again are we going to be unsympathetic to the people who want to string these people up? It comes down to being aware enough to understand each & everyone’s plight however there is a point of where we shouldn’t accept unbecoming mannerism.

    Spirituality is or should be all about acceptance even accepting in being non-accepting at times if something makes us feel uneasy.

    This is going to sound daft to you but I reckon our souls are here to learn acceptance which also includes accepting being non-accepting as well which we have done very nicely in this reality, everything has it’s place & no, no one is to blame it just is. When our souls learn the totality of acceptance of all it will then be at one & truly enlightened I believe.

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 16, 2013

    G'day frequencytuner

  • frequencytuner Dec 16, 2013

    The child molester, what a candid example to highlight. This ties back in with the extinction thread. At the human level, if you saw it happen of course you would step in, but do you condemn that man fully accountable for his actions? A child grows up with alcoholic parents, gets abused, bullied at school, tormented and disgraced his whole life. He feels weak and powerless. He knows shame, pain and abuse. He is searching for something to make him feel powerful, in charge and in control: and then he discovers little Timmy. Very disturbing, yet scarily familiar because a great deal of people can relate to his feelings: but fiercely condemn his actions on so many moral and ethical levels. He is violating innocence, traumatizing a child and fouling his soul in filth: all for a power trip.

    Drug addicts feel the same way to get a high. A divorced man might "drown in a bottle". A bullied child might lash out on a younger sibling. A girl might cry on your shoulder. A boy might hit a punching bag. Everybody, at some point, feels low and looks to others to regain their lost energy, or feels frustrated and needs release. It is the methods we choose to regain or release our energy that are the focus, not what they are, but more importantly, where we learned them and what other options we never even knew we had. For example, some parents do not even consider spanking or yelling as an option in discipline, others use fear, intimidation and violence because it is all they know. Can we blame those parents 100% for things they don't know: while maintaining empathy and compassion?

    Now to deepen this discussion, let's add "starving kids in Africa" to the equation, look at the big picture and connect the dots. In the West there is enough food and money to feed and house all of the starving kids in Africa. So the question that remains is why is it not being done? Do we blame the super rich 'elite' for being selfish and greedy? Why are there homeless and starving people here if we have so much abundance it appears to be excess? Now we ask the question, what are we taught as children to value? Here is our 'collective imbalance'. Most kids don't think about the millions of starving kids in Africa, all they care about is their Ipod and allowance. Most kids don't know how to share, play fair or respect the earth. When they grow up, do we blame ourselves for the way they are, much like we may be inclined to blame our parents for the way we are? Do we blame society? Refer back to the extinction thread to continue.

    It is entirely our fault that the kids in Africa are starving: we have been taught to consume, not share. It is entirely our fault that people resort to violent crimes and drugs: we have been taught to repress and fight, not help each other. We, in turn, are allowing our children to be taught these very same ideas.

    It is not always the one who pulls the trigger that commits the murder, and turning a blind eye never equates to innocence.

  • NoetPoet Dec 16, 2013

    Re: "Thanks for participating NoetPoet."

    You're welcome :) And thank *you* for the LOLs...

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 16, 2013

    G'day frequencytuner

    I would agree with this assumption however what if we don't like something that we deem as immoral within ourselves & dislike this same trait in others especially when they project this onto us, are we still supposed to accept this? If we don't accept this in ourselves why should we accept this in others?

    A child molester will accept another child molester molesting children but a non-child molester won't, should the non-child molester be accepting of what these child molesters do? When child molesters get together they see nothing wrong with loving children the way they do & yes I have dealt with child molesters while working in the welfare arena.

    Your going to see this as being odd but I never showed my distain while dealing with these people, yes I was accepting but this wasn't being accepting of what they were doing but accepting because I could understand their predicament not saying it was right just saying I could understand. This is like I can understand people like Dusty who deductively reason however on sites like this one you expect people to act in a more respectful understanding way.

    At the spiritual level we are supposed to be all accepting so a child molester is accepted as of everything is however at the human level for change to take effect we need to be non-accepting of certain traits. Being spiritually accepting within it's totality is also accepting in not being accepting at times as well. This is like spiritually aware people being non-accepting of the ego because they can only see the destructive attributes of the ego, this is very human however spirituality isn't just about the human self so when we look at the ego at the spiritual level we see it as something different & become more accepting of it just like the child molester. We need change at the human level so by becoming non-accepting change physically & mentally takes effect.

    It's OK to be non-accepting at the human level however at the spiritual level it's not which is what I think your trying to portray here but at the human level however at the spiritual level it's still OK not to be accepting because all is accepted including being non-accepting. All it takes is awareness to know the difference between our human selves & our spiritual selves. It would seem a lot of spiritually aware people haven't defined this difference yet for the main reason they are still trying to be at one while still fragmented. Once you become accepting within it's totality, including being non-accepting at the human level, only then can we be truly at one & all accepting.

  • frequencytuner Dec 16, 2013

    This thread is intended to stimulate each person to analyze their own individual thought patterns and behaviors and accept them, not project them onto others. The very things we do not like about others, the things that annoy and irritate us are candid examples of the very nature we carry within ourselves and refuse to accept about ourselves. If we are standing in front of a mirror and notice we have a big pimple, we might try to hide it and as a result point out the same flaw we see on another person's face simply to draw the attention to their flaw and away from yours. Yet in reality their flaw is yours: accept it.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Dec 13, 2013


    "A relatively new area in neuroscience gaining momentum rapidly is neurotheology – a field which investigates the notion that within the brain are neural structures which give rise to the potential for religious experience. More studies are beginning to show not only that neural correlates exist, but that they have susceptibility to pharmacological and pathological modification and potentiation, much as the same as we have found for many of the complex emergent properties of the brain."

    http://nirmukta.com/2011/10/26/the-god-of-mind-exploring-the-implications-of-neurotheological-research/

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 12, 2013

    G'day NoetPoet

    Again you have proved my point obviously unbeknownst to you which I find quite interesting & extraordinary, you would just have to wonder with this exercise if multinationals who also suffer with this affliction are the same, no offence intended!! This seems awfully like blind faith to me which endorses my comment in consumerist materialism being just another religion. It's funny how it all fits together but of course for a person egotistically controlled it would be totally impossible, it would seem, that they could see this, interesting. Thanks for participating NoetPoet.

    One more thing, if we didn't project how aware do you think we would be today? Yes I know I'm wrong once again, silly me -:).

  • NoetPoet Dec 12, 2013

    Re: "I had an urge to write this at 2:18 am. "

    Sounds like you might have insomnia, perhaps you should go see a GP.

    Re: "You are a prime example of how a person controlled by the controlling ego reacts, anything I have to say you will refute no matter how lame the reply."

    More projecting.

    Re: "Soldiers like Rommel where killed by the high command because they didn’t want to keep acting out the egotism & people in & out of German camps were forced to work for the Nazis, they feared for their lives so they worked which has everything to do with egotism. There are energy saving devices already out on the net but nobody is allowed by law to manufacture & sell these devices."

    Rommel was undoubtedly an arrogant egomaniac of the highest order. He got killed because he was involved in a plot to overthrow Hitler. Conspiring to overthrow a national leader, no matter who they are, is an egotistical act. People in the camps were terrified, but wouldn't you be in that situation? What's wrong with feeling terrified in a terrifying situation? It doesn't make them egotistical.

    Which laws would those be specifically? Do they apply in all countries around the world? I already said to forget about selling such devices, just give people instructions on how to build them themselves for free. At the very least you could share some of the key operational principles so that people can put the puzzle together and figure out how to build such a device.

    Re: "Yes of course you’re going to refute what I have said with something lame because you are a good example of how a person who has a controlling ego is blinded by the truth. The smartest of people including the multinationals are all controlled by this blinding controlling ego. It is funny to think they are not themselves in control & because of this blinding control they will express evil intent quite blindly with devastating results."

    Projecting again >yawn<

    Re: "Anyone like yourself who thinks war is necessary has this affliction of a controlling ego; you’re not the only one on IONS by the way."

    War IS necessary so long as you've got aggressive thugs like Hitler out there who are hellbent on violently oppressing you. Furthermore what I said is that war is still useful to people, and that it will persist so long as it remains useful.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Dec 12, 2013

    Re: Sadly enough I'm on limited downloads so I can't watch the vid.

    There is something metaphoric about this statement.

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 12, 2013

    G’day NoetPoet

    I had an urge to write this at 2:18 am.

    You are a prime example of how a person controlled by the controlling ego reacts, anything I have to say you will refute no matter how lame the reply.

    Soldiers like Rommel where killed by the high command because they didn’t want to keep acting out the egotism & people in & out of German camps were forced to work for the Nazis, they feared for their lives so they worked which has everything to do with egotism. There are energy saving devices already out on the net but nobody is allowed by law to manufacture & sell these devices.

    Yes of course you’re going to refute what I have said with something lame because you are a good example of how a person who has a controlling ego is blinded by the truth. The smartest of people including the multinationals are all controlled by this blinding controlling ego. It is funny to think they are not themselves in control & because of this blinding control they will express evil intent quite blindly with devastating results.

    Anyone like yourself who thinks war is necessary has this affliction of a controlling ego; you’re not the only one on IONS by the way.

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 12, 2013

    G'day NoetPoet

    You are so out of order it's not funny, I wish you all the best, sincerely & yes I do have an answer to all you have said here but it has no point. Lets put it this way, you have won over me, well sort of!!

  • NoetPoet Dec 11, 2013

    RE: “This is typical of someone controlled by the ego, getting little pieces here & there to make up an argument. “… it would seem you are talking about the ego being the Devil, couldn't agree more.” This was more to do with the controlling ego & it wasn't in relation to anything you said, good try of manipulation which is typical. Thanks for proving a pint of mine. “

    You did not say “controlling ego”, you simply said “ego”. You talked about egos as if their being controlling was an inherent and inalienable characteristic of them. As for the accusation of manipulation, once again you are projecting.

    RE: “Soldiers were executed or sent to these camps if they didn't become egotistical & arrogant, I advise you to read up on a bit of history about this.”

    Soldiers were punished if they didn’t do what they were told. At any rate they didn’t need to be ordered to be egotistical because the Nazis were very effective at brainwashing soldiers.

    Re: “When I have already done this why should I be forced or coached into doing this again when there is no purpose to it & why should I allow your own egotistical controlling attitude to force me to do so. “

    Like I said, you’re rationalising. If you were faced with the choice of a cosy first world lifestyle or a third world lifestyle for the rest of your days right now, I have no doubt you’d choose the former.

    Re: ”You have shown you have a huge egotistical problem with me but of course your ego doesn’t want to hear that does it??”

    Why would I have a problem with you personally? I don’t even know you. As I said my problem is with some of the ideas you’re espousing. Although it’s starting to seem like you *want* me to have a problem with you.

    Re: “Tell me what is so egotistical in saying I lived in rags?”

    The way you said it makes it clear that you derive the same sort of sanctimonious pride from having lived in rags that is frequently observed in people who drive a Prius or ride their by bicycle to work.

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 10, 2013

    G'day NeotPoet

    This is typical of someone controlled by the ego, getting little pieces here & there to make up an argument. “… it would seem you are talking about the ego being the Devil, couldn't agree more.” This was more to do with the controlling ego & it wasn't in relation to anything you said, good try of manipulation which is typical. Thanks for proving a pint of mine.

    Soldiers were executed or sent to these camps if they didn't become egotistical & arrogant, I advise you to read up on a bit of history about this.

    RE: "Yes I know you were trying to show that, and then I asked you to put your money where your mouth is by actually doing it."

    When I have already done this why should I be forced or coached into doing this again when there is no purpose to it & why should I allow your own egotistical controlling attitude to force me to do so. Again you have proved my point about people with controlling egos; youse can’t help yourselves can you, think on this!!

    You have shown you have a huge egotistical problem with me but of course your ego doesn’t want to hear that does it??

    You haven’t answered this question, so how the hell would you have any idea what I am talking about?? The thing is you wouldn’t obviously!!

    Tell me what is so egotistical in saying I lived in rags? You better try a different tack also I never said I wasn’t ever egotistical & in fact I stated, “This comes down to if we all contend with the ego what does that say about society as a whole, is it evil? The answer would have to be yes, if it’s ego controlled it must be evil however on the other hand if the ego had no or little control what would that then make society?”

    This is actually also referring to me because I am also of this reality wouldn’t you say, at least I’m truthful & not living a lie like people who are totally controlled by the ego like you have portrayed.

  • NoetPoet Dec 10, 2013

    RE: “Correction, the controlling ego not just the ego. as I have stated we need the ego & yes anyone who tried to demonise the ego all together is a wombat.”

    From your first post in this thread:
    “… it would seem you are talking about the ego being the Devil, couldn't agree more.”
    “This comes down to if we all contend with the ego what does that say about society as a whole, is it evil? The answer would have to be yes…”
    Equating the ego with the Devil sure sounds like demonising the ego to me! The only reality which is truly controlled by the ego is the one in your mind.

    Re: “Your joking surly!! How many people have been killed in wars because of egotism & again this is but the tip of the iceberg. Try telling the millions of people in WWII concentration camps this & German soldiers who didn't want to fight for someone else's ego trip. “

    Being killed or forced to kill others by someone who is egotistical is not the same as being forced to be egotistical yourself. The Nazis killed people in concentration camps for a lot of warped reasons, but the perceived lack of egotism in their victims definitely wasn’t one of them!

    Re: “With me stating this I showed I wasn't controlled by the ego obviously. Why should I be forced or encouraged to egotistically prove my point by living in a 3rd world country. Like I said I already experienced living in 3rd world conditions in Australia, have you? So how the hell would you have any idea what I am talking about?? “

    Yes I know you were trying to show that, and then I asked you to put your money where your mouth is by actually doing it. Your response to my challenge was to rationalize your lack of conviction by claiming that actually demonstrating your lack of egotism would somehow be egotistical (rather than, say, a selfless example for the rest of humanity of having the courage to live without ego and material luxury). I can almost smell the cognitive dissonance! Then in the ironic piece-de-resistance, you egotistically and aggressively gloat about having roughed it 3rd world style in Australia anyway, *unlike* me. To which I say so what, good for you, but to what extent were you just making a virtue of necessity when you did that?

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 10, 2013

    G'day NoetPoet

    RE: "Although it is ironic that you can’t seem to make that distinction, given how much you go on about the evils of ego."

    Correction, the controlling ego not just the ego. as I have stated we need the ego & yes anyone who tried to demonise the ego all together is a wombat. -:) I have no fear in expressing the ego, this doesn't denote an ego controlled by the ego, there is a huge difference here.

    RE: "Ego is a natural phenomenon in reality full stop."

    Not full stop, there is a huge difference in expressing the ego to being totally controlled by the ego, this reality is obviously controlled by the ego. In a reality totally controlled by the ego being controlled by the ego is a natural phenomenon however a reality where we only express the ego is also a natural phenomenon, the problem is it natural for a person who only expresses the ego to be forced by other people with controlling egos to be controlled by the ego? It's unnatural for a person who expresses the ego to be forced to be controlled by the ego.

    RE: "but at the end of the day no one holds a gun to your head and forces you to be egotistical."

    Your joking surly!! How many people have been killed in wars because of egotism & again this is but the tip of the iceberg. Try telling the millions of people in WWII concentration camps this & German soldiers who didn't want to fight for someone else's ego trip.

    RE: "You might be content with living in rags but that doesn’t mean that everyone else will or even should be. If you really believe do that, then why not go and live the rest of your life in a third world slum starting from today?"

    With me stating this I showed I wasn't controlled by the ego obviously. Why should I be forced or encouraged to egotistically prove my point by living in a 3rd world country. Like I said I already experienced living in 3rd world conditions in Australia, have you? So how the hell would you have any idea what I am talking about??

  • NoetPoet Dec 10, 2013

    I don’t have a problem with you, I have a problem with some of the ideas you’re promoting. Although it is ironic that you can’t seem to make that distinction, given how much you go on about the evils of ego.

    I have given a realistic and balanced appraisal of the ego’s role, function, and nature. To be caught up in ego is dangerous, but to attempt to destroy it is also dangerous. The ego is a tool of the organism, and in it is generally poor form to blame one’s tools for one’s shoddy workmanship. Insofar as it IS appropriate to blame poor tool quality, then we must ask: 1) how and why a tool was allowed to become poor quality in the first place; and 2) how do we fix or replace the tool. We certainly shouldn’t just throw the tool out altogether and not replace it, and in the case of the ego any attempt to do so will cause you to become egotistical about your perceived lack of egotism.

    Ego is a natural phenomenon in reality full stop. If this weren’t the case, then ego would never arise in the first place. It’s inevitable that some people will want to keep others mired in egotism, but at the end of the day no one holds a gun to your head and forces you to be egotistical.
    You might be content with living in rags but that doesn’t mean that everyone else will or even should be. If you really believe do that, then why not go and live the rest of your life in a third world slum starting from today?

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 09, 2013

    G'day NoetPoet

    You do have a problem with me I feel.

    RE: "Ego is not evil and it does not deserve to be vilified by being equated with the Devil."

    Of course your ego is going to tell you this; it doesn't want to hear anything to the contrary so it will want you to stick your head in the sand, how do you think the ego works?

    Ego is a natural phenomenon in an egotistically controlled reality, most definitely & yes like I have stated myself many times, without the ego we wouldn't do anything because it's the driving force behind all of what we do however this would be fine if the ego wasn't always in control of us.
    It's when the ego is controlling, which has always been going by human history, that gives us evil intent. If for once we brought in a bit of wisdom we would be aware of the controlling factors of the ego to make a better existence for ourselves but the multinational Gods of the church of consumerist materialism don’t want this to happen obviously.

    Yes I am one person who would be quite content in living in rags with a meagre roof of some kind over my head, I've been there.

  • NoetPoet Dec 09, 2013

    Ego is not evil and it does not deserve to be vilified by being equated with the Devil. Ego is a natural evolutionary response to the Darwinian pressures and other environmental conditions which are unaviodable realities of human life. What we call ego is really a persona (a Latin word for "mask") that the human brain generates so that the human organism can interact with its environment in a manner consistent with ancient deeply ingrained instincts for survival and propagation. Ego only becomes pathological when it is imbalanced in some way, particularly when it gets caught in neurotic thought patterns and/or develops an inflated sense of its own importance. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here: without ego nothing worthwhile would get done, there would be no social interaction and no achievement. Even monks will admit that the ego is instrumental in getting a person on the path to spiritual development.

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 09, 2013

    G'day frequencytuner

    Sadly enough I'm on limited downloads so I can't watch the vid.

    Reading both comments it would seem you are talking about the ego being the Devil, couldn't agree more. Who in this reality doesn’t have a controlling ego to contend with? Very few of us, even the ones who say they have no ego are obviously controlled by the ego within their responses/comments. I call this the hidden ego which is worse than expressing the ego freely & uncontrollably because their living an utter lie, their egos want them to believe they are egoless or at least have the ego under control.

    This comes down to if we all contend with the ego what does that say about society as a whole, is it evil? The answer would have to be yes, if it’s ego controlled it must be evil however on the other hand if the ego had no or little control what would that then make society? The opposite of evil, good I would presume. It seems to be obvious to me that we are living & being evil in a n evil reality if we allow the ego to stay in control. No wonder we are destroying this reality at an alarming rate!!!

  • Anonymous Icon

    Leahsls Dec 09, 2013

    frequency, i can so relate to what you are saying. i too catch myself when i can feel myself feeling and sounding self-righteous and my ego needs to be right. i really like your starting this thread on the devil as it is of great interest to me. i know of people who have had metaphysical experiences whereby they saw a spirit that resembled the devil. i have had experiences with an angry ghost. i keep hoping that some of the near death experiencers will provide some insight and answers to the questions surrounding evil. while we all have a choice how we behave and overcoming our egos, there are many people who were born "sick" and commit evil acts ie sociopaths. so if they were born that way, the Grand Consciousness of the Universe created them that way, I conclude. Others have concluded either by near death experiences or readings or meditation or by hearsay, that we all have contracts for better or worse and it all serves a purpose. What are the changes of IONS studying this?

  • frequencytuner Dec 08, 2013

    For myself, I like to believe on some level that every post I make is of benefit to someone. I am in a constant state of internal analysis as to whether I am trying to assume some heroic archetypal role and feed my personal need for sustenance as a mystic sage, or if my intentions are truly for the benefit of the reader, or simply because I feel the intuitive call to post every post I post, including this one, for the sake of following intuition alone.

    I know I have many times condescended others and spoke as though elevated on a higher spiritual, moral, ethical and intellectual plane. The desire to be right is one I personally wage war with regularly and often times succumb to the desire with the justification that it is "to help them". I, again, analyze myself and ask is it to truly help them or feed my ego and remain upon this pedestal? What if I am wrong, and by extension, who am I truly misleading? Am I posting here for your benefit or mine? The answer to this question is as a rhetorical question should be as is the paradox of existence, but the question of motive is my personal struggle.

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