Discussions

Anonymous Icon

Voice from the past

Posted Sept. 16, 2013 by Jim Centi in Open

Anonymous Icon

commented on Dec. 7, 2013
by dustproduction

Quote

43

What most of you fail to realize is that Dustproduction is an atheist and he often defends his atheism by quoting materialistic science.

Atheists, such as Dustproduction, rarely admit publicly that they see belief in an afterlife or spirituality as evidence of mental deficiency or irrationality.

I, along with many others, abandoned Discussions rather than put up with his disagreeable nature. During my last months of participating in these discussions, I choose to simply ignore him and will do so in the event he responds to this post.

  • 43 Comments  
  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Dec 07, 2013

    re: exceptionally intellectual.

    Perhaps mildly intellectual, I am constantly reminded of this in other conversations about other subject, but thank you for saying so.
    But your comment will allow me to introduce the concept of abductive reason:

    Abductive reasoning

    Another form of reasoning is abductive reasoning. It is based on making and testing hypotheses using the best information available. It often entails making an educated guess after observing a phenomenon for which there is no clear explanation. Abductive reasoning is useful for forming hypotheses to be tested. Abductive reasoning is often used by doctors who make a diagnosis based on test results and by jurors who make decisions based on the evidence presented to them.

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 07, 2013

    G'day frequencytuner

    Yes awareness is the key to existence either gained by deductive or inductive reasoning processes, the problem is, it would seem, people who only reason deductively don’t respect others who reason differently, this has been proven a number of times on IONS.

    Any subjective evaluation made by people who deductively reason when in obvious opposition to people who inductively reason shouldn't be allowed to occur on sites like this one. Are people who inductively reason as subjective as people who deductively reason? No because inductive reasoning is far more open minded therefore less slanted within their evaluations however when we get to total blind faith that is another story, blind faith leads us right back to how people who deductively reason.

    I see it like this, on one side we have deductive reasoning & on the opposite/opposing side we have blind faith & in the middle we have inductive reasoning. Both opposing sides have their limitations because of the reasoning process used however inductive reasoning doesn’t have this limitation or blind reasoning, it’s not limited by a fixated reasoning process.

  • frequencytuner Dec 07, 2013

    Indeed, just exceptionally intellectual.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Dec 06, 2013

    interestingly, I have never stated that I was an atheist.

  • frequencytuner Dec 06, 2013

    Back to yin and yang: the atheist is yin and the spiritualist is yang. It is their nature to contrast and their destiny to unite, much like to mainstream "science vs. religion" drama. Dust provides a wonderful opportunity to see a perspective that contrasts those who fail to see it otherwise. As we all know, it is through contrast that things become seen, and by seeing we become aware and awareness is the key to existence. All is a matter of perception.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Dec 02, 2013

    Here is some interesting science that no one what to know.

    http://www.hastac.org/blogs/drpicard/2013/10/07/science-public-knowledge-and-public-controversy-case-popscicom

    "If study participants read rude comments, especially ones that included an ad hominem attack, participants reported more downsides to the reported technology. However, if participants read civil comments, they experienced no polarizing effect."

    Before other level a pointed finger at me for doing this the article adds this:

    "Science needs public engagement that values debate and disagreement. And while I agree with Popular Science’s removal of comments as a way to ward off polarizing attacks that discourage engagement, I wonder if there’s a better way. Some sites use moderators who patrol commenting, but that adds another level of “big brother” –esque difficulty to the equation."

    Something I have also asked for. The bottom line is that trashing my comments is not great for IONS.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Dec 02, 2013

    Re: Must you pick apart anything anyone says?

    "Say what you mean and mean what you say."

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 01, 2013

    G'day Jim

    I think the choice is an individual choice, I'm quite content, to an extent, in interacting with other different chemical & electrical combinational forms of beings, you never know when you will get an explosion or even a pacification out of an explosion. We are not just chemical elements /compounds but highly electrically charged forms, I wonder if that is what sets of the charge!!!!!!

    This really comes down to what mixture of these combinations are we after when posting, one should have a choice in what mixture one wants on one's own post to give a desired effect but of course other elements intrude even after asked not too which pollutes/ruins the experiment/post. Yes of course we are going to get upset when our experiment is polluted or even sabotaged but that is part & parcel of mixing with other forms of vibrational influences.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Dec 01, 2013

    Hi Mathew,

    Yes, I have often considered that Discussions is simply a side show or puppet show for a much more expanded audience.

    There are some very enlightened people on staff and a much wider circle of members and affiliates who do not participate in this puppet show; but I’m sure they check in to occasionally to observe our antics as a scientist would observe the cells in a Petri dish.

    I have come to observe the outside world, as portrayed in the mass media, in this manner; various levels of awareness performing in this masquerade we call human existence.

    So then, what are we to do; continue pretend that we take Discussions seriously and anticipate an invitation to participate in some loftier discussion? Or should we simply drop out and learn to enjoy the solitude of our awareness?

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Dec 01, 2013

    Finally, some actual thoughtful discussion.

    Re: "We look at how different chemical compounds react when interaction occurs in different ways but few of us look at how different energy forms interact in the same manner as chemical compounds."

    A science reference. Thee human interactions are also chemical reactions in the brain and body.

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 01, 2013

    G'day Jim

    I don't think anyone truly hates anybody else, we might lose respect but hate, no I don't think so.

    A few years back if one posted too many comments &/or dominated too many discussions they were pulled up for this, like I was, which is quite fair enough.

    I look at these discussions & persons like myself as a side show or a scientific analysis, people are looking on analytically at our behavioural patterns, trust me on that & yes probably getting a good laugh at our interactions with each other.

    Human interactions or different energy forms/ mixtures is what makes a reality what it is, these forms bounce off each other in different ways creating all kinds of energy flows, this is exactly what we are doing here. We look at how different chemical compounds react when interaction occurs in different ways but few of us look at how different energy forms interact in the same manner as chemical compounds. I actually don’t see any difference other than in the complexities between chemical compounds & human form; they are all vibratory substance or form interacting between each other.

    If we take matter & antimatter, they create when interaction occurs, humans coming together also create. Everything works by the same laws & principles.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Dec 01, 2013

    Dustproduction,

    Must you pick apart anything anyone says? Ok, I’m included along with you.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Dec 01, 2013

    Re: "a place where hostile and hateful individuals congregate."

    Question what role you yourself have played in this.
    The discussion "The Enlightenment of Neuroscience" contains a comment that invites the author of the research paper to witness the negative reception his research received here. He website links to IONS.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 30, 2013

    Hi Mathew,

    Discussions has deteriorated to the degree that anyone visiting Discussions would categorize The Institute of Noetic Sciences as a place where hostile and hateful individuals congregate.

    Discussions is beyond repair. If I thought that anyone from staff pays any attention to Discussions, I would recommend that Discussions be closed for a time until a New Improved Discussions with a monitoring system can be installed.

  • mrmathew1963 Nov 30, 2013

    G'day Jim

    Anyone who has total disrespect of others will never desist because they can't or won't see they are at fault & yes we are at fault as well Jim. This is like trying to change the world from the outside in instead of the inside out however one must try the depth for themselves to see within themselves what has to change.

    Don't get me wrong because everyone has a right to reason deductively however so have others if they wish to reason inductively. There seems to be a slight problem here with people who deductively reason, people who deductively reason don't seem to want to know or accept others who reason differently.

    It's not easy to change our thought patterns therefore change from within when people who deductively reason are always trying to swart what we ourselves are about. I think it's utterly rude to ostracize anyone but when one consistently disrespects others especially when pleaded not to show disrespect what is one to do?

    PS Job is correct of course however if I was to say to someone not in the know, "You have the patience of job" they would ask me what job am I having patience with. The correct pronunciation of Job is Jobe because Jobe refers to a persons name not an occupation or task in the English language however one can also use Job but it's too confusing for my liking so I use Jobe.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 30, 2013

    The premise of this discussion is that personal attack are permitted here; that individuals can be singled out and perhaps ostracized.
    The person who posted this discussion has repeatedly attempted to dictate to others what is and isn't suitable when it comes to comments.
    Since this discussion is an attack and a misrepresentation of my beliefs I will take every opportunity to address what I see as a systemic problem here in the dicussions.

    I am not the only one who has been subjected to such harassment. The poster of this discussion made these comments about another commenter.
    "It seems that you habitually post whatever you wish as long as it provides the opportunity to exhibit that you have some superior knowledge of what you refer to as genuine superConsciousness/Enlightenment.

    You’re habitual boasting of superior wisdom reveals that you are trapped in an ego that gains gratification by boasting of what may be your delusion of being an enlightened being.

    Please spare us of your habitual boasting and read carefully the topic and my response to it. Then if you must post something respond to the topic and/or my response to the topic."

    Where does this sense of misplaced and self serving authority come from?

    For the record, the poster of this discussion is not the only offending individual. As I have said, it is a systemic problem at the IONS discussion boards since the staff does little to regulate the discussions or comments. The same poster has previously had comments removes from these discussions, but that was several years ago. Few reputable site would allow or tolerate such nonsense.

    Those that care to look will find that I have repeatedly asked other that are intent on engaging in 'argumentum ad hominem' ( general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument ) to "stay on topic."

    Now I have been made the topic. So, this is the place to bring your egos and your anger. Explain to me this, "Who made you the boss of the discussions?"

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 30, 2013

    Re: the patience of Jobe

    Job? "The patience of Job". see James 5:11

    "9 Don't grumble, brothers, against one another, so that you won't be judged. Behold, the judge stands at the door. 10 Take, brothers, for an example of suffering and of patience, the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 Behold, we call them blessed who endured. You have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the Lord in the outcome, and how the Lord is full of compassion and mercy. 12 But above all things, my brothers, don't swear, neither by heaven, nor by the earth, nor by any other oath; but let your "yes" be "yes," and your "no," "no;" so that you don't fall into hypocrisy."

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 30, 2013

    Hi Mathew,

    Between the two of us, you have more of the patience of Jobe; I lost my cool back a few weeks ago……I’ll have to work on that.

    It looks as though this last session of bantering has ended; hopefully, we all have learned something from it and Discussions will slowly begin to exhibit an aura of harmony where we learn from each other.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 30, 2013

    dustproduction

    I was about to post a page from Linkedin, but I’ll wait until you spam another of my topics.

  • mrmathew1963 Nov 29, 2013

    G'day Jim

    You & I have the patience of Jobe, it must be the belief in that spiritual mumbo jumbo that’s giving us so much patience otherwise I know I wouldn’t put up with this kind of limited reasoning.

    This is a good thing because it’s showing firsthand how different we are within our own reasoning processes. There are many people out there running the whole show with such a limited reasoning process, no wander we are in so much of a mess!!

    Wasn’t there something from IONS written up about changing our thinking process to change the world? This limited reasoning process that so many people seem to be stuck in really does need to change for the betterment of all.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 29, 2013

    Those that post comments should be prepare to defend them. Questioning or challenging a commenter's statement is not spamming.
    Highjacking a discussion with off topic comments is. Even this discussion seems inappropriate, it's not about IONS in any way

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 29, 2013

    dustproduction,

    Well, you quickly found the reason for your vendetta against me. So you admit that this is the reason you have spammed all my topics.

    My comments were intended to inform participants why you were habitually critical of any comments relating to spirituality in order to prevent them from questioning their spirituality.

    My comments were not intended to slander you, because at that time they were true; only recently has your views toward spirituality begun to soften. It remains to be seen in what direction you will eventually settle.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 29, 2013

    Re: "What is the cause of your vendetta against me?"

    Well isn't this the pot calling the kettle black!
    What happen to ignoring me Jimbo?

  • Billgreenjeans Sep 21, 2013

    @ dustproduction Oh I understand now you were trying to shame me by eluding to me as a witch because I use HOMEOPATHY and radionics to help people. You wanted to " brand" me with a label. That was a joke I hope, because I don't want to brand anyone no matter which definition you use. I don't shame to easy because I am not all that educated to understand when I am being shamed or branded and when I am not.

    Anyway all jokes aside. I don't have any unkind feelings for anyone. I have run the list of people who are friends and those who have attempted to do wrong to me and I can truly say I don't have any unkind or malevolent feelings for any of them, especially those who are commenting here. I hope that others will feel the same.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Sep 21, 2013

    "branding" has more then one definition:

    • figurative a habit, trait, or quality that causes someone public shame or disgrace : the brand of Paula's alcoholism.

  • Billgreenjeans Sep 21, 2013

    Branding is a way of distinguishing one persons livestock from another. Most branding irons are electric nowadays. Cattle brands are usually placed on the hip or thurl or the girth while horses are placed on the shoulder, jaw or buttock. The XIT ranch was an interesting brand - XIT. Two famous brands are the running w of the King Ranch and the four sixes ranch 6666.

    Branding can't be pleasant for the animals however it is a necessary protection for identification. Maybe there has been someone who branded people but I no nothing of that.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Sep 21, 2013

    edit:

    So what is the 'fear' here (on the part of most IONS commenters) and who is being branded.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Sep 21, 2013

    So what is the form here and who is it that is being branded?

    Normal is a a conditional average, not an agenda.

  • Billgreenjeans Sep 21, 2013

    Yes the similarities. Today when someone doesn't understand something for FEAR of it upsetting his agenda he just calls it witchcraft or non sense. Most all innovators or those challenging the staus quo are demonised is someway or the other because they are "not normal". I have read posts of few here who are normal except maybe one.

    Normal. - approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Sep 20, 2013

    See the similarity here?

    "When Leo Igwe was a child living in Nigeria, he saw his father beaten after being accused of witchcraft. Accusations of witch craft run rampant in many parts of western Africa, and Igwe has made it his life’s work to bring attention to the problem. Many of those accused of witchcraft find refuge in “Witch Camps,” which offer safety after an accused individual has been ousted from a community. Igwe has visited camps in Nigeria and northern Ghana and tells host Dick Gordon what life is like inside them."

    http://www.thestory.org/stories/2013-09/accused-witches-last-resort

  • Billgreenjeans Sep 20, 2013

    I have no complaints with anyone here accept dustproduction. Most discussion here is not clear at all to me and I am certain that is my fault. I feel this is not the place to discuss God and Religion, however it is illogical to look around and think that this was all started by some unconscious explosion. To think and have a tenacious belief that is all started with a giant explosion is more faith than most all religious people have and helps those who believe this doctrine to bury there small inter voice that says "you are doing something wrong and hurting others".

    While dustproduction brings some interesting research to our attention he refuses to discuss any research that doesn't fit his agenda. To him it is all "non sense". He doesn't want his research deemed non sense, which some of it maybe, and even though most of it is a reiteration of past presented research. There are many questions not answered by "science" today which are not addressed by dustproduction and this forum was support to discuss and support research that addresses these unanswered questions. Most all of dustproductions comments is a rerun of past meaningless research that is geared to generating more grant money and tenure for academia.
    I have no unkind feelings toward anyone here, especially dustproduction. Others are as dogmatic as dustproduction in there beliefs and I am too. When someone starts talking about something they believe happened billions of years ago, I think this can be nothing but conjecture. I look at a passion fruit blossom and think someone had a great imagination with that, and not that it just happened out of nowhere.
    The mind is not confined to the brain and we are more than a machine. Love has meaning more than any electrical or chemical brain reaction and HOMEOPATHY and radionics works. So stop spending your life on chemical drugs that poison you and make good business for drug companies dustproduction. Spend you life on things that work and do no harm.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Sep 18, 2013

    from the discussion, "Forget About GOD"

    "Concepts of God are not God. To believe in God and not believe in god is really the same thing. From one perspective, you have a concept of God that you can believe in, from the other perspective you have a concept of god that you cannot believe in."~~Jim

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Sep 18, 2013

    @ RealityOverScience,

    It is helpful to address your comments to a specific individual, as I have done here, in order to avoid confusion.

    In no way do I consider myself a medium.

    Jim

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Sep 18, 2013

    By the way, I only just now saw your profile, where you refer to yourself as a "medium." Your post suggests an assumption that I had read it before and was personally and intentionally attacking you, the "medium."

    I have repeatedly expressed that my awarenesses come from Universal Physics, not anything conventionally "psychic."

    I've just proved my point.

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Sep 18, 2013

    charliet,

    Petrified?

    Or, is it petrifaction?

  • charliet Sep 17, 2013

    ROS

    To say that our emergency service people negate information and let people die is a slight and I take offense to it.

    My IONS profile and the information I do share is only a very small peek into the me that I am.

    Yes, I was born with an extraordinary gift and that is why I see right through you.

    I take offense to those who proclaim themselves as teachers and guide the bewildered students down the path when the teacher knows not the path upon which they trod.

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Sep 17, 2013

    charliet,

    It's physics, not a magic act, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with anything "psychic." Don't confuse what I have been mentioning on these boards with conventional "charlatan/medium, etc." exploitation of society. It's about Universal Consciousness, and there's extraordinary responsibility that comes with having "that much information!" It's not something to play with on message boards, in terms of details.

    I've been discussing the physics involved, and no where near as specific or detailed as I get into in my actual teaching of it. My point has been to help folks see that higher Universal Truth is available, and Answers accessible, when one allows oneself to process life beyond the artificial, imposed boundaries of convention.

    I did mention how very painful it is to detect imminent events that are beyond the ability of geologists, other scientists, emergency services personnel, etc., to process, since all they do is negate the information, letting thousands of people die.

    I don't feel an ego need to prove my awareness of imminent events here, to reassure my own self. I have been officially and repeatedly documented for decades as being deadly accurate, using the physics I teach, and nothing anyone says, myself included, will ever undo that. Consciousness comes with the inescapable responsibility to share it, on behalf of all sentient beings, including (and especially with) those who persist in negating it. It's often a "darned if I do, darned if I don't" situation. My interest here is to compassionately help folks realize that they are far more than convention permits them to be, that learning to reconsider the concepts of time, space, multidimensionality, language, math, etc., and trusting themselves enough to evolve beyond the boundaries of convention, which has inadvertently locked itself into a very narrow perception of reality, will lead them to the discovery of the same Awakening for themselves.

    You were born with the same extraordinary gift! Everyone is! It's just a matter of *remembering.*

  • mrmathew1963 Sep 17, 2013

    I would also like to say I too have been ostracised by so called oneness, caring loving spiritually aware people which I still to this day find strange & slightly hypocritical!!

    “Consciousness is imagination gone wild where’s logic is the separation of ourselves from consciousness”…Love Mathew

    “Judgment is but a foot hold in becoming further aware of one entity until judgment no longer exists”….Love Mathew

    “There is nothing mystical about the unknown only the known, so if you are questioned about your beliefs in mysticism just say it’s only mystical to you as you not the understanding of something more than you believe!!!”.....Love Mathew

  • mrmathew1963 Sep 17, 2013

    G'day Jim

    Well what can I say, are you a spiritually aware person Jim? Spirituality is all about acceptance & oneness so segregating Dustproduction who is a part of consciousness & spirituality as well isn't very much of being at one. Dustproduction like anyone here has something to teach, listen to the whispers not the screams that are going on in your head about Dustproduction Jim.

    Yes atheists can be dogmatic within their beliefs like with any ism however like I said any ism can blind us to other truths & spirituality is no better in my mind to atheism, just because we feel at one doesn't make us as one which is obvious in what has been shown here in my mind.

    Dustproduction is pointing out a different view which is great; yes people like this can be annoying but ask yourself truthfully why they are so annoying to us at any given time???? You will find it's mostly because they have a different view in what we are going through which could be right because the mind is a very tricky little device. It's better to listen & learn than to stay ignorant of our short falls.

    If Dustproduction is annoying I would suggest looking at our own egos for starters, "how dare he questions our beliefs all the time with apparent proven scientific fact" or "how dare he assume he is right over me ALL the time”. You will psychologically find the closer he gets to the truth the more annoyed we get at times as well.

    Where has all the love, acceptance, oneness & understanding gone??? However in saying all this I get quite annoyed with people as well but I know it's not them but me who has the real problem!!!!

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Sep 17, 2013

    I think it is obvious that these comments and discussion violate the IONS rules.

    "1) You agree to be courteous in your comments, and not to submit any material that reasonably could be considered to be abusive, uncivil, hateful, or threatening."

  • charliet Sep 17, 2013

    HI Jim

    Nice to see I am not the only one still around. I agree, the discussions have become -- annoying -- comes to mind. I too have avoided joining. I also find it interesting how the one (ROS) who can see world catastrophies long before they occur never mentioned or warned of the recent floods in Colorado or the use of gas in Syria, to modest I guess, didn't want to overstress us non enlightened ones.

    By the way Jim, just finished Dean Radin's newest book Supernormal, good read. Well off to the background again. I also will not respond to any comments.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Sep 17, 2013

    Hi Jim,
    Nice to see you raising questions here again.

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Sep 17, 2013

    Conventionally, most folks perceive religion vs atheism as black and white, all or nothing at all, assuming there can be no real Answers, only subjectivity, and stand their ground from there, an unrealized reflection, and projection, of their life experiences with authority figures, etc..

    But there really is a "middle way," or balance, to realize.

    Though, with superConsciousness, the physics of the concepts and origination of "God" and "Jesus," etc., or any other religion's deities, can easily be found and resolved in their and the Universe's true physics, unmistakably, I consider myself Universally Eclectic, which balances the truth with the dream.

    The Dalai Lama has likened Buddhism with Atheism, because Buddhists are not Anthropomorphically Externally Dependent, all the while being very deeply spiritual folks, for instance.

    Most folks are doing the best they can with what they have and " where" they are at the time.

  • or Sign Up to Add a Comment

Stay in touch with IONS