Discussions

If the research of Dr. Ian Stevenson, Helen Wambach Ph. D., Dr. Chet Snow was more widely understood we would become much more aware that a powerful case can be presented that our human spirit/soul comes back over and over again in virtually all racial groups.

In a sense everybody who reads this comment is probably, to some degree, my great, great, great.....grand daughter or grand son from one or more of my probable past lives! This idea can play a major role in assisting humanity to come together at a new level!

It depends on your perspective. Just as an island can look completely different from different vantage points, reality can be oneness or a multiplicity depending on how you look at it.

It seems like you are assuming that “oneness” means a complete lack of differentiation and total stasis, but I don’t think this is necessarily the case. For example your own body is obviously differentiated from the rest of the cosmos, but when you take a closer look you see that the separation between your own body and the rest of the world is illusory: you ingest food and inhale air from, and excrete waste and exhalation breath back into, the world. Your body is constantly exchanging material and energy with the rest of the world, and your very life depends on these dynamic exchanges: when the body stop exchanging with the rest of the cosmos, it dies. This dynamic interaction between your body and the rest of the cosmos is possible because there is a fundamental commonality between the two. Even when the body dies we say “ashes to ashes, dust to dust”. However it’s not enough to say that the body come from and return from the cosmos, because it never actually separates from the cosmos to begin with: rather, the body is just one particular dynamic configuration produced by and within the cosmos.

Similarly your mind is constantly receiving information from other people and the external world, and using this information to build its own consciousness, perceptions, and ideas which it in turn shares and uses to guide its interaction with the outside world. When your mind totally stops exchanging information with the outside world and within itself, it enters into a state which might be described as “Nirodha” which means “cessation”. It seems to me that the experience of “Oneness” occurs when the mind lets go of the mundane and dualistic distinctions between self and other which preoccupy us in day-to-day life. Yet even when the mind totally stops discriminating and moving altogether, perhaps it is still fundamentally of the primal void?

So maybe “oneness” can be both a dynamic and a static thing, depending on how you look at it. I think the key thing to remember is that it is not so much the un/reality of oneness which matters, but what you can learn from the experience of oneness. Perhaps it is more accurate to regard reality as a dynamic “emptiness” or “zero-ness” rather than “oneness”, insofar as reality is an interplay of phenomena which are ultimately empty/void of absolute distinctions and separations? Kind of like waves on water: they may appear to be separate entities but really they are just movements of and within the same ocean.

One-ness, or unique-ness is ALL that exists due to atomic "super position" as a function of universal time. there was never a precursor to you, a perfect "other you" elsewhere, nor can there be a "future you" either.....someone might look like you, but wouldnt be composed of the same atoms as you nor would he would have traveled through the same universal space as you did in the 1990's-2060 if he lives in the years 2040-2120. superposition wise, atom "ionization" wise, he'd be quite different then you......at the atomic level, nor could he have the same playmates, classmates, and friends, experiences, parents, etc. going through life....... Max Tegrend thinks there is another you somewhere, I happen to think he's wrong based on the foregoing, he seems to forget basic quantum unique-ness......however, Numbers and functions are both real and imaginary and are manifest in nature, they are not unique....they repeat.....Prime numbers dont repeat!

frequencytuner: Mirrors and magnets are also excellent great examples of difference.

"If I smash a mirror into a million pieces, each fragment; through it's 'quantity' may change, it retains the reflective quality." This is exactly the point, there is qualitative oneness, but quantitative difference. One has to appreciate theres both oneness and difference. Why only focus on the qualitative oneness?

"As with magnets: smash a magnet into a million pieces and each quantitative fragment retains it's inherent quality of polarity."
Agreed, but those million magnets fragments is different than 1 big magnet in the fact that a big magnet is able to attract much more than the little fragment. Thats a significant difference.

"The critical parameter to consider is the perspective of the observer. One can see individual experiences or expressions of a common quality. One can also see patterns, forms, layers and dimensions...Imagine if all radio stations broadcast over the same frequency, what would it sound like? Now imagine if your TV played every channel at once and you had a special set of glasses and headphones to filter out each individual channel instead of changing the channel."

The critical question is whats the source of the frequency, experiences, forms, dimensions, layers etc? Is the guy sitting on the couch watching the TV the source of the frequency? Even though the guy may have to ability to change the filter/frequency/channel by using the remote, he is not the source of the frequency, nor does he have control over it. Similarly, the reality is that we don't have full control over reality. This entire creation and our ability to perceive in it, is not a creation by us, rather we are minute parts of that Supreme Personality, equal in quality but different in quantity. Exactly what your examples show, yet theres no recognition of the Supreme Spirit, which is infinitely superior than us fragmental spirits.

Our real interest and pleasure comes not in enjoying the material frequencies offered by the TV of this reality, but recognizing and connecting with the source of the frequency.

Mirrors and magnets are also excellent examples of oneness. If I smash a mirror into a million pieces, each fragment; through it's 'quantity' may change, it retains the reflective quality. As with magnets: smash a magnet into a million pieces and each quantitative fragment retains it's inherent quality of polarity.
The critical parameter to consider is the perspective of the observer. One can see individual experiences or expressions of a common quality. One can also see patterns, forms, layers and dimensions.

For example, an apple in sunlight is red, but in a photo lab with red light the same apple may be nearly invisible. The observer in this case: is it the apple, the light or the eye viewing it? It is not the eye that changes, nor is it the apple, but the light - the lense - that changes. Watch a 3-D movie without the glasses to understand this visibly. The eye and an apple can be described like a mirror or the conscious mind and a fragment. Light determines what is observable to the eye because it is like a penetration from the subconscious. The eye observes a fragment of this reflected light. Within that fragment is the patterns, forms, layers and dimensions that determine the observability of what the observing eye would describe as the apple.

Imagine if all radio stations broadcast over the same frequency, what would it sound like? Now imagine if your TV played every channel at once and you had a special set of glasses and headphones to filter out each individual channel instead of changing the channel.

I think that oneness is a struggle that we deal with daily; however, with technology we are better connected than ever. We have started the Human Connection Project at www.pingcolors.com, where we aim to ask a daily question to create a global consciousness. Check it out and let us know what you think. The site is only in the beta stages, but we will be releasing new features soon. Thank you for your help :)

I had an OBE a few years back and for a CPA that is probably something very rare. I went to (well … my awareness state of being) went to the Zero Point Field … the timeless spaceless domain of pure awareness to which I was instantly adsorbed into and became one with. All there was … was an Awareness … of an Awareness … of an Awareness … of an Awareness forever.

It is a state of total singularity … no time or space boxes for “other energy forms” to manifest. Thus without time and space cupboards there can be no “consciousness” or (Latin) “To know” since without “other” or “the observable” … there can be no state of observation … i.e. no “Observer.”

For me “Experience” is the only fundamental basis I have for absolute essence of truth. And for me not only is this place … this blissful realm of the silence of Awareness an absolute … it is also the fundamental initial and essence of a Living Energy form from which when it occupies the cupboards of time-space creates living things. There are NO NOUNS in this or any other Universe.

The scientific/metaphysical reality that we are all “one” is based on the existence of our individual, immortal human souls/solar angels* (crown chakras/egoic lotus), which were created by the Logos in His/Her “image,” are energetically connected, and existent within the “One in whom we live, and move, and have our being.” The separateness in the physical world is an illusion (maya), but a real, genuine duality (spirit/matter) exists as was stated by “knowers,”¹ past & present. It’s because of the foregoing, and the fact that our souls incarnate at the “appointed time”² out of evolutionary and karmic necessity, that we find ourselves pondering what life is all about.
Most members of IONS are aware by now that we don’t live in an accidental (big-bang) universe, nor is our lives accidental, nor is our presence here in discussions a coincidence, but a synchronicity.

Sincerely yours,
Dean Sloan
http://www.qdeansloan.com/bio.htm

* http://www.light-weaver.com/fire/fire1260.html
And http://www.light-weaver.com/fire/fire1212.html
It’s creation “produces (upon the third subplane of the mental plane) a ninefold vibration or whorl in the gaseous matter of the plane-for this is the cosmic gaseous subplane-which, after a certain period of persistence, assumes the form of a nine-petalled lotus. This lotus is folded over in bud shape upon the central point, or heart of the lotus – that spark of electric fire, which by its action or innate vitality working upon the substance of the lotus, attracts to itself sufficient of that substance to form three inner petals, which closely shield the central spark; these are nevertheless of the same substance or essence as the nine other petals.” “Around this central nucleus, or inner flame, are arranged the nine petals in circles of three petals each, making three circles in all. These petals are formed out of the substance [spiritual, intuitive, higher mental] of the solar Angels as are the central three-substance which is not only sentient as is the substance of the forms in the three worlds, but which has an added quality of “I-ness” or of self-consciousness, enabling the spiritual unity at the center (by means of it) to acquire knowledge, awareness, and self-realization” (A Treatise on Cosmic Fire http://www.light-weaver.com/fire/fire1309.html
http://www.light-weaver.com/fire/toc.html ).
More on chakras http://www.subtleanatomy.com/Chakras.htm

¹ http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/plotenn/enn379.htm
And http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/plotenn/enn400.htm

² Job 14: 14 “If a man die, shall he live again? All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.”

The interconnectedness of things

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJmGrNdJ5Gw

G’day Bibhuti

Yes I agree it’s more complex than what a lot of people realise & with our present conscious understanding we will probably never truly understand oneness.

I’m not a well-educated man & I’ve read & studied very little but this has allowed me to, I think, see beyond our present consciousness as I have no fixated beliefs or concepts to abide by, my mode of thought is not fixated to one or two variables, I think it’s relatively clear of these obstruction in furthering to expanding consciousness beyond old taught belief systems & concepts. It wasn’t long ago I too believed in this oneness as shown in my posts on my blog.

We are in a massive conscious change which will entail us to drop all of our beliefs & concepts of old & take on new ones; this is what conscious changes are all about changing our present mode of thought for something different which of course helps expand consciousness.

Look at the universe for example, the universe started off quite miniscule into a universe that is expanding at a huge rate & in this universe we have a huge variety of expanded matter that is many times bigger than the original source, I think consciousness from the source works in exactly the same way. In actual fact I wouldn’t be surprised that when the big bang occurred that wasn’t the exact same time that consciousness expanded as well from the source, I think it’s linked. This is why I think everything is spiritual as it’s all interconnected like with the expanded parts of the universe. For example the galaxies are now much larger than the initial matter as it has expanded its conscious energy but each galaxy has its own oneness about it as we do as humans through duality. Duality is so important in expanding our consciousness it’s not funny just like the universe.

I know we have labelled this unified mass a universe which means one but is it as it’s expanding away from its initial creative source & each other just like we have done through duality, just because we have labelled it as a unified mass doesn’t mean it is remembering each galaxy is it’s own oneness!! Some of the galaxies are going to merge which poses yet another conceptive idea of two consciousness’s merging. If we studied the universe as if we were studying consciousness we would find out a lot more about ourselves!!!! We are that oneness within ourselves not with the source as each oneness state has its own oneness conscious state just like the galaxies but we are still all interconnected which doesn’t mean oneness it just means we have come from the same one source.

Love
Mathew

PS Thank you for your conversing with me Bibhuti even though I'm a little loony

Hi Mathew
I can understand your view point and you have some valid points which push me to dig inside again.

I prefer oneness to maintain the equilibrium, because for state-of-equilibrium I have to strongly believe on oneness otherwise how would I say there is no difference between you and me, because we both inherited from one base but rolls are different but one unique father.

The source is a super set and we all are the sub set of that super set irrespective of or concept/belief. We cannot think beyond the source.
We all are connected but our request varies from person to person so as response. There is no such device to detect the connection.

This is a complex topic, even one life period is not enough for this to understand.

KALKI MAHIMA.

G’day Bibhuti

Yes I can see by believing that the source is inbuilt within us that what you are saying about oneness would have to be correct but if someone else has a different concept/belief that we are only parts of the source they too would have to be right within their conscious understanding.

I believe we are connected to the source but to me it’s not inbuilt, I keep asking the question is everything oneness & I keep getting the same answer back no, there was a oneness but it expanded its consciousness beyond its conscious self to develop individual entities of itself to carry on with expanding the initial consciousness from the source however we are still connected to this source which isn’t the same as being at one.

Everything is spiritual including all the so called nasty things which is what we have expanded from the initial consciousness of the source, it’s we as individuals interacting between each other that has caused this expanded consciousness not the source itself or the source through us. The source instigated dualism but we have expanded on it it’s we who are our own oneness or source not something else so connecting within gives us our own oneness not oneness with the initial source.

Take a look at our parents, I am not one with my parents but I am connected still, I have been created by them but I’m not at one with them as I am my own creator as now I can create other creators in their own right & so will they. Duality is expansive & creative in everything; it expands consciousness further & further on. This is no different to what the source has done in my mind in sending parts of itself out which created dualism which creates in its own right. Dualism to me is the true oneness we seek not something that makes us feel better, there is more purpose & belonging in dualism than oneness I believe as oneness only feeds our desire to belong when we already belong.

It is funny how our concepts/modes of thought dictate what seems right or wrong to us, this concept of oneness I put forward didn’t come from a book or from any belief system but from my head but of course that doesn’t make it wrong just a little more unfeasible I suppose in today’s society.

Love
Mathew

Hi Mathew

We are not a part of that source/initial consciousness, rather the source/initial consciousness has been inbuilt within us.
We need to connect inside us not outside but as this source/initial consciousness has been developed form a infinite period of time it is unique and is present within us.

Before consciousness we need the state-of-equilibrium as prerequisite then only we can able define the undefined consciousness.
It is very easy in words and writing but in real time it is not so easy. All our activities in day to day life are not towards the source/initial consciousness rather it is against it.
KALKI MAHIMA.

G’day Bibhuti

It’s very hard to argue with this concept Bibhuti because the DNA chain says it all which is of the physical & consciousness works in the same way, you have the source/God & everything from that physical or not is a part of that initial consciousness thus we have oneness so this is saying oneness does exist.

The thing is we are only a parts of that source/initial consciousness, we have a connection but we aren’t one with that source as we are not one with the source as a whole. To be really at one all would have to be whole with the source again, having a connection or similarity to the source doesn’t make us one with the source it just explains where we have come from.

Like I have said oneness exists but only through us being individual parts of that initial source, only through parts of that initial source can the source/God know of its existence & only through existence as individual parts of the source can we see the initial oneness in this source/God. Actually I think the source/God wouldn’t know of its own existence & oneness unless it had individual parts of itself to identify itself through, it’s being expressive of itself through us & anything else that is of its consciousness.

Oneness exists as it’s all a part of the same consciousness no matter how many parts it has divided itself into but by doing so it is no longer oneness itself as it can only be whole, at one, if all of its consciousness became whole with the source again. As individuals we can feel at one when we are reconnected to the source again however for oneness to be complete all parts of its consciousness would have to do the same thing. I believe we are the very parts of the source/God itself so what I am saying is the source isn’t at one unless all of its consciousness re-joins with it again however once re-joined with the initial source maybe the source wouldn’t need to have comparisons as it would already know of its own existence & oneness through its pre-existing separate parts of its conscious self?? I think it likes experiencing itself through us for example so it will continue to exist through its individual parts of its conscious self I believe.

Love
Mathew

Dear Mathew oneness does exist :
97 % of our DNA chain are analogous for all humans across the Globe irrespective of the position, power, states and religion. This says one unique thing is present.
The difference is only because of 3%.

Oneness : We should not compare this with materialism point of view and comparison always creates an existence(Identity) and with Identity we cannot fetch real data present in side us .
We should compare our self with the property of Water Air etc.. and then set your existence which will be same as Oneness.

IF we go back and back of our evolution theory, we all inherited form one base point.

KALKI MAHIMA.

G’day Frequencytuner

If I cut the leg off the elephant is it still whole (one) or if a man losses his hair is he no longer whole (one)? You can’t obviously relate oneness with anything physical, oneness is just pure consciousness as it doesn’t matter how many parts of the oneness you cut off it’s still one. So if the monk felt the leg that’s been cut off there’s no oneness!!!

The problem is we label things as being one like an elephant but it is made up of many parts to make up the elephant & this is where consciousness is the same as anything physical, we are a part of that consciousness the same that the leg is a part of the elephant only by labelling them so.

There is no oneness unless all the bits are as one again & I can’t imagine that ever happening because oneness only exists through diversity through existence however one can feel at one as an individual still.

I agree consciousness is one thing as it’s everything bits cut off or not but only because of these cut off bits can oneness exist otherwise it wouldn’t know of its own existence I believe.

Love
Mathew

4 monks were instructed to define an elephant: blindfolded. Monk 1 said it was like a tree, feeling the leg. Monk 2 said it was like a wall, feeling the ribcage. Monk 3 said it was like a snake, holding the trunk. Monk 4 said it was like a rope, holding the tail.Why are they all wrong? What if there 20 monks now and each described a small unique part, related it to the others around him and decided-as a group, to draw a picture. Do you think 20 monks would do it? How about 100 to describe an elephant, all from a unique, blindfolded perspective. We are those blind monks.

G’day all

Oneness exists but not in the way we think it exists I believe, we are really one energy source/consciousness which is oneness however this only works if there is a comparison so if everything was in this one state of energy consciousness you wouldn’t have comparisons therefore oneness. What I am saying I don’t think anything can exist unless it has a comparison.

I think the source needed comparisons to know of its existence, humanly this might sound lame but we are not talking about human consciousness but something much grander & far more aware but it’s only aware through humans, anything physical & non-physical that seems different in some way to the source. Yes oneness exists but only through comparisons & if we didn’t have comparisons we don’t have oneness either. The paradox here is nothing is different from the source so there are no real comparisons really only parts of that source that makes it seem different, in other words we are only in comparison because we are parts of the source that seem different to each other, we are only made up of parts of the source not the whole of the source which can’t know of its existence accept through parts of itself.

The paradox here is there is a oneness but only through indifferences can oneness exist therefore there really can’t be any true oneness if we need indifferences for oneness to exist.

Love
Mathew

Dear Mathew oneness does exist. The universe had patiently waited 13.7 billion years to ask, Are we one? All in is proper order and now is the time to compare it. Are you one with everything? Well can you see, hear, smell, taste and touch? You are using your brain right now in a different plane of the physical world than your senses. The fact you ask the question a message has been sent and the answer also has been sent. You are the center of the universe and have been chosen to observe it, therefore you are one in oneness. My answer does not matter only your action does. E=MC2 you are made of matter and energy = 1

Life
Angel of Quantum

Ah, and now you know why we are here and why our individual unique perspectives are so very valuable!

On a higher level All That Is - is One. We are all part of the larger whole. But just like the cells in your fingers have a different perspective from the cells on your toes encased on socks; each of us has a unique perspective.

That perspective is where our great value to All That Is arises. All That Is (hereinafter I will call All That is Source since that is the term I prefer) enjoys the unique perspectives. Source does not judge our perspective although Source will tell us if the perspective we are currently taking is leading us toward or away from the desires we have decided would be best for us. Source sees our position here, living life, as being the best perspective from which to decide what is best for us. Emotions provide the feedback. If they feel good we are moving where we want to go and if they feel bad we are moving away from our desires. It is much like a common children's game where an object is hidden and the child is told "you're getting warmer" as he nears the object and "you're getting colder" if the child begins moving away. Simple. Succinct. And so misunderstood by most of humanity!

The comparison (or as Source would be more likely to say) contrast helps us to know what we want by showing us what we do not want. When we make those decisions--even unconsciously--Source holds our highest desires and gives us clues in the form of emotions to show us the way.

♡ Jeanine

G’day Fallensoul

I’m really glad you replied……..When taking on the full philosophy/concept of acceptance one also takes non-acceptance as that also is accepted, it’s acceptable to accept to not accept as well so if I was in danger I would also not accept being in danger or hurt so I would react. Within this concept there is no emotional conflict during or after any event even if I killed someone.

This sounds like it’s giving me the right to do as I please but that’s not quite correct, when one takes on this concept you know you can’t do wrong to others because you’re already accepting therefore non-conflictive. The thought of non-acceptance of any one thing is conflictive but once you become accepting in all conflictive thoughts never enter the mind in the first place to become conflictive.

If I was fearful of my life & I killed the aggressor that would be accepted however not without remorse altogether but certainly not in conflictive, we are a very non-accepting society & this is why we are so conflictive.

Playground: You’re talking in the human context of things, look at it through the eyes of our spirit which is all of consciousness; it doesn’t want to escape this so called misery because you wouldn’t be here would you as it is our choice to come here in the first place? Humanly, because we are ignorant of our spirit we feel we have no control but of course we do humanly to a point but the spirit is always in control. Once we become aware of our own consciousness then we realise that it’s all a game of sorts. We are not this crude matter Fallensoul but much much more.

The funny thing is I’m thinking of righting up on the subject of our pure consciousness for my blog but it’s a very tricky thing to right about as you could imagine.

Love
Mathew

Mathew: It's nice that you share what you believe in, ofcourse this philosophy is impractical. Violence, as with everything has its proper utility. If someone comes to attack you, will you apply your philosophy of acceptance? Its rather utopian and fluffy.

If we have devised this playground, why can't we get out the playground at our will, immediately. Or stop the death of our body? Then where is the question just oneness, if you are bound up in a playground that you don't have control over?

G'day Fallen soul & Otto

I believe time & space doesn’t exist because how does one measure time, through days & nights? You might be interested in this link http://www.nowpublic.com/world/scientists-show-time-and-space-do-not-exist

I also believe everything is of this spiritual consciousness including this physical realm/reality which a lot of people believe to be not of the same consciousness, there is only one consciousness however they seem different because of our deliberate ignorance of anything else. I believe the reason for this is our playground that we have devised which at the moment is influenced by too much seriousness which has made this playground quite non-accepting & violent, the less serious we are the less violent & more accepting we are & the more harmonious our playground would be.

I have devoted my new blog to the ideology that through acceptance one can live harmoniously which is titled The World of True Spiritual Acceptance.

Love
Mathew

Otto: We have alot more in common than just space time. The spiritual reality works outside the space/time of the material world. The material world is just a reflection of that spiritual reality. So as we have so many things in common here, we do so there but in spiritual consciousness.

Does anyone share the experience with the oneness in SpaceTime with me? I think that the only thing we have in common as spiritual beings is space and time. What do you think? www.crestroy.com

:-)

I had a major realisation recently about this. My cognition was that the oneness we experience is in space and time. We are all eternal in time and infinite in space. We are SpaceTime fundamentally. The moment we start experiencing anything, which is in the physical universe and our own universe (antimatter) at the same time, then we become individuated from our common denominator SpaceTime.

I hope it makes sense. At least it does to me.

G'day Saurabhtambe

Unmanifested oneness...interesting way to put it as we are oneness itself as we are of that God but in an unmanifested state of awareness, oneness exists through our duality of non-oneness/unmanifested state of awareness, if it wasn't for this state God/ oneness wouldn't exist, only through our states of unmanifested oneness can oneness exist I feel.

Love
Mathew

G'day Fallensoul

This is another reply I made to another person on another site discussing the same topic.

G'day WhiteShaman

Thank you WhiteShaman as that was quite informative....I never gave a thought until now that God & oneness are the same thing, in replying to the replies to my thread I found they are the same thing.

God/creative consciousness/oneness can't exist unless it's through existence of parts of God experiences & comparisons, we know we & God exist because we can compare the individual parts of God which is us, we are that very creative consciousness that oneness in a non-oneness state.

It’s funny to think that this creative consciousness individualised itself to exist.

I know this is loopy but who really knows, it just might be the case.

Love

Mathew

This is a reply I made to another person on another site discussing the same topic.

G'day Rin

As usual you are making a lot of sense here.......But isn't existing the opposite of not existing, if we say oneness exists isn't that a comparison, what I'm saying it doesn't exist for the reasons you brought up here as oneness & enlightenment can't have comparisons, it just is.

What I'm asking here does oneness have to exist to be, as you have stated with comparison existing only exists because of the comparison to non-exiting?

To tell you the truth it just is & from the start it didn't know of it's existence until something similar like the big bang of this universe occurred which created conscious existence so I vaguely believe.

Why do we have to believe something has to exist to be? Sorry I just don't firmly belief that everything has to exist that is especially when working on a limited conscious understanding, don't we just have a conscious understanding of a third to a fifth dimensional consciousness? What would any of us really know what existence is to a twelfth dimensional conscious being?

Sorry Ris but it just IS to me but it doesn't stop me from feeling at one however!!

Love
Mathew

G'Day mrmathew1963: According to the Vedic literatures -- oneness does exist, but difference also exists. There is simultaneous oneness and difference. See this thread: http://noetic.org/discussions/open/29/

The problem is when you accept only oneness and oneness as the ultimate, is where you fall into these awkward questions. There cannot only exist oneness, because difference already exists. Some philophers as saurbhtamba is claiming that it is just an illusion or maya, but the question remains unanswered, how can God who is meant to be all powerful, how can God come under His own illusion. Therefore God and us are not identical in every respect. We are limited parts of God. God is unlimited. That's a huge difference.

Unfortunately this oneness philosophy is being propagated as the ultimate -- that this world is an illusion and we are the Supreme God. But thats a great misunderstanding. This world is real but temporary. An absolute world does exist, but there is variety in that absoluteness. This world is a reflection of the Absolute world. It is in one sense inconceivable for our limited minds. But one can appreciate as you have figured out that there exists both difference and oneness -- even at the ultimate level.

Variety is the mother of enjoyment. We are meant to enjoy, but we are not the Supreme enjoyer. We can control, desire etc, we possess personality, fame, wealth, beauty, power, renunciation, but to a limited degree. We cannot claim to possess these qualities in full, to an absolute degree. In other words, we are subordinate to a Supreme Person.

saurbhtamba: what is the source of your information? perhaps you can respond on the duality and non-duality thread.

Silence is the only reality beyond words, but when it is necessary to express that silence then we have to say "Oneness" or "Advaita". Existence in its true form is unmanifested oneness but because of maya it seems as manifested in many. But this "many" can't survive for eternity, it desolves into oneness one day. But when it seems like duality is existing then still it is like clouds in sky which don' t affect the sky, in same way duality don't affect the oneness behind it. Thank you....... :-)