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Physics of Nonduality Quantum Potentials and Higher Realms

Posted Aug. 26, 2012 by Giorgio Piacenza Cabrera in Open

commented on May 6, 2014
by NoetPoet

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6

Nonduality in physics begins with a wordless inspiration leading to an integral view that makes room for all of reality, including higher realms and an expanded concept of what "matter" and "substance" may be.

The great experimenalist Akira Tonomura showed that quantum potentials are of a level of reality that is not directly detected by scientific apparatus but that has definite physical consequences. This level may be (in relation to our ordinaily perceived physical reality) non-local. Is it actual? Is it "real?" It depends on how we look at it. Is it material? Yes, in the sense of a kind of substance. It stands before or below the physical form and what we think of "physical" force field vectors. Is it physicalist? No, not anymore in the crude mechanical sense or its vestiges found in modern physics and in the mind of "reality=physicalism" scientists.

Materialism doesn't have to equal physicalism under a wider view of what "matter" and "substance" might be. At this point in Integral theorizing we need to consider that a deeper kind of materialism is not just compatible with non physicalist models but with approaches that include the material existence of other realms. Integral Theory proposes the universal fact that all things or holons (realms of reality included) have (at least some degree of) Objective Exteriors. These other realms would have EXTERIORS, not physical as in the Gross Realm we ordinarily perceive and tend to conceive as the only reality that matters. These other realms while undetected could be considered as ""potential" and when detected as "actual" in relation to our ordinary "physical" experience. In other words, they are REAL but can be thought about in two broad ways. This is a SUBTLETY and distinction that needs to be considered in future INTEGRAL modeling that relates our known physical universe with other realms. If we do so, Integral Theory could become more scientifically predictive in due time and not just act as an integral set of principles and guidelines. Scientists are slowly recognizing that other realms and realities are possible and necessary even for understanding how our physical universe works, its fundamental laws, constants and other values tuned for life. That there is a program and a programmer is becoming more and more plausible as chance is not and self-origination out of nothing makes little sense. Both the quantum energies allowed by the Uncertainty Principle and the quantum potentials are not "nothing."

The quantum potentials that are sometimes considered as accompanying "real" physical phenomena (having to do more with fields of vectors and forces) may be the "tip of an iceberg" located in a realm that programs physical universes. These potentials may be subsets of a higher mental-informing realm whose exteriors (whose matter) respond to mental causes and is itself derived from a causal realm of first principles...all of which derive from an Absolute Non Dual Trascendent Creator outside (not merely restricted by not just of space and time of the "Physical Realm" but of all logical possibilities of the Mental Realm and of the first principles of the Causal Realm.

  • 6 Comments  
  • NoetPoet May 06, 2014

    “Genuine Universal Answers come from... BALANCE ...and your presentation on these boards consistently lacks that essential *balance!*. You are the one being "obnoxious!"”

    And what is this “BALANCE” RoS? How would you suggest I be more “balanced”?? My posts are informed by science and rational argument; the only time I even come close to being obnoxious is when I am either a) under attack from someone else, or b) refuting ridiculous and potentially harmful nonsense posted by others.

    “No wonder there is only a tiny handful of folks contributing here! There are obviously lurkers, but they've certainly learned that they are going to be personally berated and their insights and curiosities belittled by yourself and a couple others who live on this sight as if Noetic Sciences is 100% all about you!”

    Oh there are lurkers are there? How would you know that? This board doesn’t show how many users and guests are present. If there are hordes of lurkers as you proclaim, then I think it’s much more likely that they’ve been put off by the woo-tastic word-vomit of people like yourself, MrMathew and the OP. And if some of those timid lurkers are the kind of people who would otherwise post similar word-vomit, then so much the better if I have deterred them! I have never said that “Noetic” science is all about me, I have never even implied that. You, on the other hand, have spared no effort in advertising your alleged access to some kind of “higher knowledge” not given to the rest of us “conventional” mortals. In reality you are just making yourself look like a delusional fool; like the emperor with no clothes, you think you are sauntering around in the finest garments, but in reality you are stark naked and we’re all copping an eye full of your shame.

    “For topics and concepts to be explored, ideas shared, intelligent and mindful non-conventional reasoning to be worked through, together, folks have to present themselves from "where they are" and they have a right to be respected and to receive feedback that includes compassion and empathy and validation!”

    They also have the obligations to back up their ideas with reason and evidence, and to not resort to personal attacks when someone so much as *questions* their ideas. I respect other posters far more than you do, you hypocrite– certainly if your interference in my threads versus my lack of interference in yours is anything to go by! I will question, I will investigate, I will critically assess, and I will call out claims which are flat-out wrong or dishonest. You however just impose the same old crap on everyone, going on like friggin’ broken record with your insipid word-vomit.

  • NoetPoet May 06, 2014

    “You persist in trying to stand guard at the gate and trash anyone and everyone who dares to be a part of what the Noetic community is really all about! Your aggression and arrogance toward others stems from your underlying insecurity! Step back, stop dominating the boards and claiming noet-all sole ownership of "science" and give space to all the folks being intimidated away from contributing to this site!”

    I don’t stand guard at any gate. I don’t discourage anyone from posting, and in fact I have explicitly encouraged other posters to start new threads on a number of occasions. Moreover, I tend to confine most of my posts to threads which I have started, and I make every effort to keep on-topic in other people’s threads - which is more than I can say for you! By the way, how exactly does my posting once or twice every few days qualify as “dominating” the board? Perhaps you should consider the possibility that most people just aren’t interested in “noetic sciences”, especially when it’s so thoroughly polluted by the unintelligible rantings of people like you, MrMathew and Giorgio. Stop looking for a scapegoat and start cleaning up your own backyard!

    “There are all sorts of brilliant minds lurking with wonderful insights, but Noetic Sciences has a long history of bullies living on their sites chasing everyone else away, and that in itself, so far, is the consistent universal dynamic NS seems to be accepting!”

    Critical analysis and civilized debate is not “bullying”. If you think that it is bullying, then clearly *you* are the one who is racked with insecurity.

    “If your feelings get hurt, it's about time you show some! After all, there is no *balance* without them!”

    My feelings aren’t hurt RoS, so don’t flatter yourself. However I cannot stand by and allow you to smear and vilify me like this.

    “I agree with the original poster, btw!”

    Well isn’t that a surprise!

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience May 06, 2014

    *site (not sight...iPad changed that...typical!) 0.o

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience May 06, 2014

    Noet,

    Genuine Universal Answers come from... BALANCE ...and your presentation on these boards consistently lacks that essential *balance!*. You are the one being "obnoxious!"

    No wonder there is only a tiny handful of folks contributing here! There are obviously lurkers, but they've certainly learned that they are going to be personally berated and their insights and curiosities belittled by yourself and a couple others who live on this sight as if Noetic Sciences is 100% all about you!

    For topics and concepts to be explored, ideas shared, intelligent and mindful non-conventional reasoning to be worked through, together, folks have to present themselves from "where they are" and they have a right to be respected and to receive feedback that includes compassion and empathy and validation! You persist in trying to stand guard at the gate and trash anyone and everyone who dares to be a part of what the Noetic community is really all about! Your aggression and arrogance toward others stems from your underlying insecurity! Step back, stop dominating the boards and claiming noet-all sole ownership of "science" and give space to all the folks being intimidated away from contributing to this site! There are all sorts of brilliant minds lurking with wonderful insights, but Noetic Sciences has a long history of bullies living on their sites chasing everyone else away, and that in itself, so far, is the consistent universal dynamic NS seems to be accepting!

    If your feelings get hurt, it's about time you show some! After all, there is no *balance* without them!

    I agree with the original poster, btw!

  • NoetPoet May 04, 2014

    "Nonduality in physics begins with a wordless inspiration leading to an integral view that makes room for all of reality, including higher realms and an expanded concept of what "matter" and "substance" may be."

    Utter poppycock.

    "The great experimenalist Akira Tonomura showed that quantum potentials are of a level of reality that is not directly detected by scientific apparatus but that has definite physical consequences."

    From Wikipedia:
    “Building on this, in 1986, he (Tonomura) experimentally verified the Aharonov–Bohm effect, which had eluded definitive experimental proof for a long time. This experiment proved that vector potentials, which are nothing more than a mathematical concept in classical physics, are in fact physical quantities that are more fundamental than electric or magnetic fields.”

    So he showed that vector potentials are *physical quantities* - NOT that they are beyond detection by scientific apparatus, nor that they are of another “level of reality”.

    "Is it material? Yes, in the sense of a kind of substance."

    Uh, yeah that’s what “material” means…

    "It stands before or below the physical form and what we think of "physical" force field vectors. Is it physicalist? No, not anymore in the crude mechanical sense or its vestiges found in modern physics and in the mind of "reality=physicalism" scientists."

    Straw-man argument.

    “Materialism doesn't have to equal physicalism (blah blah blah)”

    Evidence please – and no, distorted interpretations of highly specialised work done by actual scientists does not qualify as evidence.

    "The quantum potentials that are sometimes considered as accompanying "real" physical phenomena (having to do more with fields of vectors and forces) may be the "tip of an iceberg" located in a realm that programs physical universes. These potentials may be subsets of a higher mental-informing realm whose exteriors (whose matter) respond to mental causes and is itself derived from a causal realm of first principles...all of which derive from an Absolute Non Dual Trascendent Creator outside (not merely restricted by not just of space and time of the "Physical Realm" but of all logical possibilities of the Mental Realm and of the first principles of the Causal Realm"

    In other words, let’s dress up the old occult idea of multiple planes of existence in scientific drag, and then set out to prove what we already believe. Yeah, nothing unscientific or intellectually dishonest about that at all! Oh, and the bit about a “Transcendent Creator” outside of “all logical possibilities” is just priceless: congratulations, you’ve effectively made your ‘hypothesis’ impervious to all logical and experimental dispute. Obnoxious 10 year olds all over the world would be proud…

  • Anonymous Icon

    jstiga May 04, 2014

    Dear Dr. Cabrera,

    I enjoyed your item immensely, even though I happen to disagree with the final bottom line. The Potentials & realms of which you speak are reminiscent of the ancient Greek concept of "Potentia" used by Idealists & also by Materialists, such as Plato who too sought a wider envelope of Materialism.

    As for my " final bottom line" I can say that Science can be as inspiring as the most beautiful sunset, & so on. All such reflects the grandeur of a Nondual Reality that is more truly spiritual, with nothing actually existing as separate "material." Science & Nonduality is a fascinating conjunction of study. I offer a large, free e-book (PDF's) on that topic. This "Theory of Everything" is a bit of a rambling, informal Almanac + comic book of serious Nonduality & not-so-serious Science. I do write as a scientist, but more significantly, not as a seeker, but as a finder, though I care not to try to prove that, nor would that matter.

    Please feel welcome to peruse or download PDF's picture-image (no text, no scripts or macros), sole occupants of a Public Microsoft Skydrive "Public Folder" accessible through any of the 3 equivalent links listed, choosing whichever looks most friendly & convenient.
    https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=C81642944D928F11&id=C81642944D928F11!102, http://sdrv.ms/YPOgkX, http://tinyurl.com/nnyyr58

    John Stiga
    JStiga@Gmail.com

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