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Outside the box

Posted Jan. 19, 2012 by Jim Centi in Open

commented on Feb. 27, 2012
by slowlygetnthar

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There has been a lot of speculation as to what December 2012 will bring. I favor the notion that we are heading toward a transformation of consciousness that will alter our perception of reality in a magnificently amazing manner. What follows is my outside the box speculation regarding this transformation of consciousness:

First, a bit of groundwork: many esoteric disciplines speak of an experience of awe or ecstasy that is available if we exist in the space between our thoughts. This advice has also been promoted by advocating meditation as a means to transcend the thinking process, dismantle the illusion of a past, present and future and enter a state referred to by many terms such as Samadhi, Enlightenment, God Consciousness, Buddha Consciousness, Unity Consciousness and Cosmic Consciousness etc. It is true that these terms have been used when referring to lesser experiences. Having spent a few hours in this state many years ago, I agree with certain experts that, at our current stage of mental or spiritual evolution, this state is available consciously for only short periods [several minutes to a few hours]. The experience can also occur unconsciously during sleep.

Whether experienced consciously or unconsciously, our reality paradigms are altered in a responsive manner and we often seek camaraderie in organizations such as IONS. I have also come to agree with certain authorities that this experience is our birthright, that is to say, ultimately, it will become our everyday experience. Former astronaut Edgar Mitchell, the founder of IONS, states this in one of his recorded lectures on this site. In that lecture, he describes his experience in space while returning from the moon. In one of Edgar’s early lectures he states that this experience was his motivation for creating IONS.

So then, speculating outside the box as promised: I believe that this transformation of consciousness will provide a form of direct knowing…what this means is concept formation, comprehension, theorizing, cosmological speculations and intellect will be viewed as no longer useful, obsolete relics of a primitive past. Some will argue that without concept formation we would be abandoning religion and what some consider treasured theologies. They also argue that without concept formation we could not create the modern conveniences that provide comfort and entertainment. I would gladly give up all that for a primitive existence, if that primitive existence provided the divine state of grace and beyond description awe, where the familiar human sense of self does not exist.

  • 25 Comments  
  • slowlygetnthar Feb 27, 2012


    Hi Jim, I haven't watched the video yet, so cannot comment on it.

    The thought I did want to share is that folks of the Baha'i faith believe that religion is evolutionary as well. In the past, prophets come when we are ready for them to bring us the messages we need at the time. I am not saying the Messiah is coming in Dece,ber 2012--don't worry. What I am saying is that folks don't normally think of religions as things that evolve. However, they do. The Inquisition is no longer in business and saints are not being tressed to pyres for hearing voices.

    So, maybe we do not have to dispose of our religions and spiritual traditions (since I am never giving up Santa Claus, and I want to be clear about that). Very much like the tension between spirituality and science, there is room for the two to complement and round out one another. They do not have to be mutually exclusive, though if we have a paradigm shift, worlds may be rocked to the core, and we will reconsider religion & science. It may actually result in renewed interest in religions of the world and a greater appreciation for science...maybe? ...

  • Jim Centi Feb 27, 2012

    If you would like to watch an eighteen minute video of a brain scientist who describes an experience she refers to as Nirvana [generally something experienced during meditation] as a result of a having a stroke, follow the link below:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

    What conclusions can be drawn from this video?.........Jim

  • slowlygetnthar Feb 09, 2012

    As a species, why can't we shift into understanding the multi-dimensional nature of our existence? While IONS and its associates/enthusiasts (we) may be exploring the outer edges of consciousness and open to paradigm shift, it seems that most people are struggling just to get through the dimensions with which we are well-acquainted: housing, paycheck, relationships, daily life. Do most people ask if there is anything beyond these? Are they willing to contemplate the outer perimeters of the box? I think most may not be willing.

    People seem to believe that shifting to any other operational mode is going to result in total destruction of everything--Apocalypse/end of Mayan calendar, War of the Worlds, etc.,....To ask people to consider a shift is just too terrifying. People fear obliteration of the old that comes with re-conceptualizing our reality. It will make us question our religious frameworks, and some folks are clinging to those, desperately, to guide and make sense of their lives.

    Believing in total destruction--Apocalypse--is a cop out, though, as far as I can tell. It is an excuse to just hang on to life and follow structures because of fear of doing anything else. This gives us excuses not to take care of the planet and not to explore what could be a better framework for our societies and selves. It creates a great malaise/impotence on spiritual, psychological, and practical levels.

    I don't know how greater consciousness of society can shift, in this age of the rise of fundamentalism (in all religions) and divisiveness in politics.
    We are living through a time when people feel great fear and anxiety about economic, philosophical, political frameworks and how changes and failures of these can harm us. Fear is not a secure atmosphere in which to strike out into new territory.

    ...So, it seems to me, we all need to get beyond fear for a paradigm shift to be possible for our species. Maybe fear is a form of evil spirit that seizes and immobilizes us from doing the work we need to be doing to save ourselves/our planet/our species, in the long run.

  • Anonymous Icon

    BECHAMEL Feb 04, 2012

    The question I levied on astral projecting was not made in earnest. Nor was it a joke. It was pointed to the remarks made by Jim Centi concerning atomic particles related to his own experience.

  • karenbeth22 Feb 04, 2012

    UUUUUUU, I am enjoying the possibility of "The Amusement Park of Conceptual Thought". That is a fantabulous! Process addictions such as "addiction to thinking" were introduced by Dr. Anne Wilson Schaef, who declares that addictive behavior is part and parcel of our culture. We are programmed to be in relationship addiction from early on in our upbringing. From my view, Amusement or Entertainment doesn't preclude communication, learning, or healing Therapy), it encompasses them. In talking or writing, I tend to separate myself into fragments...my thinking self, my feeling self, my physical self et al. It's challening to write holistically since language is so limiting.

    My way of aligning with "the gap" which I believe is the space between thoughts, is to "be" in a state of stillness with my "observer/witness" self allowing me to "be" rather than "do". This goes beyond "meditation" per se and yet may be achieved through meditation. At one point in my evoluation in consciousness, I was delighted with the highs and lows that I might experience through the various methods of breathing, astral projection, and going "out of my mind". With age, and perhaps with a touch of wisdom, I no longer seek the highs. Loving "what is" has become a place to reside in wonder and awe...AND also frustration, disappointment, and fear. I don't judge the latter. For me, it's all "god" or "infinite intelligence" or however a divine presence is described. I don't even try to describe or know what divine might be. It goes beyond words, feeling, and experience.

    I have adopted the belief that everyone is doing the best that s/he can, at the level of awareness that s/he has...AND that as a race, we may only be functioning at a 9-10 percent evolutionary level of consciousness. Yikes...I am barely civilized.. So yes indeed, I believe that this is an amusement park for my soul to experience...and even though my mind will attempt to categorize, or make conclusions, it is barely capable of focusing on the next moment.

    Awwww. My mind is such a sweet gift if I keep it as my servant. It is when I allow it to run rampant and believe that "it" is running the show of my life...oops! In addition, I have adopted that belief that everything happens "for" me rather than "to" me...which I have to realign with frequently through a day.

    I just put a new tagline on my email signature - "You Are Entitled To My Opinion". Isn't that fun?

    Warm hug to all.
    Karenbeth

  • Jim Centi Feb 04, 2012

    BECHAMEL,

    Sorry for the confusion. The title is “Outside the Box”, but the theme relates to a transformation or transformations of consciousness……..Jim

  • Anonymous Icon

    BECHAMEL Feb 03, 2012

    Admittedly, JC these responses have confused me further as to the intended topic.

    Concerning your quote on having the experience of an atomic particle in two places at the same time, is that you astrally projecting yourself over here? Please stop that!

  • Jim Centi Feb 03, 2012

    Karenbeth22 and béchamel,

    Good comments, you have expressed insight with a philosophical twist that awakens the soul.

    A phrase that I have been accused of over using is “The Amusement Park of Conceptual Thought”.

    In another topic I stated [paraphrasing], even when we engage in spiritual talk or read the ramblings of intellectuals, we are susceptible to being drawn away from that sacred state where thought does not exist. The allure of the amusement park is addictive.

    Recently I have begun to share the experience of an atomic particle that can exist in two places at the same time. It seems that I can experience the light by allowing some aspect of self to remain in the clear sky above the amusement park and at the same time participate in the recreational value of the amusement park where conceptual thought appears to have value.

    With the right perspective we can have more fun than a barrel of monkeys.......Jim

  • Anonymous Icon

    BECHAMEL Feb 03, 2012

    a reply for kb22;

    Talking and writing are forms of communication, education, therapy. Keys to perception and can also be used as weapons, that perhaps, where old pen mightier than sword addage comes from. Though perhaps is entertainment, for others.

    I have given up on getting outside the box. Cut peepholes in box. It is a parabox. Maybe that is paradox.

  • karenbeth22 Feb 03, 2012

    As I grow older, I continue "to know that I don't know" and that no one else does either. Talking/writing is entertainment. Perception is truth. Thus for me, there is no absolute truth, only "my" and "your" truth. Comparing truths is fruitless. We share our truths expecting others to understand. It won't happen.

    When I began my "conscious" journey, I was coming from years of alcoholism and drugs and cigarette smoking to suppress my rage. According to some, alcohol suppresses fear, cigarettes suppresses anger, marijuana suppresses grief, and caffeine stimulates all of the suppression. I took classes at the Esoteric Philosophy Center in Houston. I adopted a belief that "the soul simply experiences". It has no judgement of positive/negative, good/evil, right/wrong...it simply experiences.

    I have experienced times of bliss and never volitionally. They just happened. Heaven on earth. Humans are such programmed beings. Particularly from the time that I begin using language, Ie began to lose my awareness of my divinity. I began to experience being human.
    I believe that I am a spiritual (divine) being traveling through the experiences of being human.

    Out of the box? I go in and out of the box of programming as I believe all humans do. We are all creators. Whatever is manifesting in my life, is formulated from my beliefs and my attachments. Change my beliefs and my outer world shifts and aligns with the change.

    "You Spot It You Got It" is another fun phrase. In reading some of the responses to each other posts, projection seems to be running wild. Isn't accusing someone of being condescending being condescending?

    Aren't we all just fascinating? How Does It Get Better Than This!

  • Anonymous Icon

    BECHAMEL Feb 02, 2012

    It nearly seems that outside the box is another box. Outside that box, is yet another box!

  • Anonymous Icon

    nbtruthman Feb 02, 2012

    December 2012 will bring a transformation of human consciousness? I don't think so. This is expecting a miracle violating known facts of psychology, neurology and sociology. How many times have apocalypses and miraculous transformations of consciousness been expected by various New Age groups, only to have humanity blithely continue its endless conflicts, cruelty , greed and selfishness?

  • Jim Centi Feb 02, 2012

    BECHAMEL,

    Thank you for pointing out that the past several comments to my post are unrelated to the post.

    As for your specific question to me, I find that the hype around December 2012 is either responsive to doom and gloom or an elevation in human consciousness. I chose to side with those who promote a transformation in consciousness……Jim

  • Anonymous Icon

    BECHAMEL Feb 02, 2012

    a reply for KYRANI;

    Perhaps I lack ability in being concise. Have been told as much!

    Am unsure the topic raised by out of box must neccessarily do with theism (nor with anti theism therefore)? I do see where the author above refers to god consciousness in exploring the idea of transforming. I do not object to the ideas, which you're entitled to. Is merely that the discussion entails certain definitions I am unfamiliar with and not by default, equipped to explore in depth.

    As to semantics on this, since it has been raised, had I not had these very topics baited rather pointedly and very consistently, unsolicited in the past by persons with clear intent to not only gather my personal beliefs, thoughts on not just this; also religion in relation to theism, values, morals, ethics, so forth with seeming intent to guide responses in the process while in midst of violating my privacy, might more inclined otherwise to engage in further discussion on such specified propositions outlined here.

    Question for Jim Centi and Outside the Box;

    May I ask into the significance of December, 2012 related to the idea of transformation?

  • KYRANI Feb 02, 2012

    @Bechamel,
    I can understand what you are saying. I guess what I am trying to say is that the differences between theists and non theists may be semantics only. If we use the word being then we tend to have a concept of some person, supreme or otherwise. If we use the word existence then that problem doesn't arise. A theist is someone who accepts existence as more than just the physical, that reality has both a physical and a non-physical aspect.

  • Anonymous Icon

    BECHAMEL Feb 01, 2012

    Greetings, fellow ionists.

    Pertaining to comments below, I suspect that different people define justice in differing ways and those differences can create tension.

    Regarding non theists and specifically the noteworthy attempt to bridge gaps between theists and non theists, it is not entirely clear how someone non theistic in beliefs could even conceptualize being included in the memory of a being which does not exist for them? Certainly there are probably enough persons condemning atheists for having lack in certain departments. Your offerings on this are generous and genuinely thoughtful.

  • charliet Jan 29, 2012

    Kyrani

    Thanks for the reply, I understand and agree with your thoughts, gives me a better understanding of you, I believe that getting know more about the people one converses with on this site really helps when reading the blogs.

    Thanks again.

  • KYRANI Jan 29, 2012

    To Charliet,
    I believe that we are all capable of good and bad actions and that certainly is a matter of choice. However evil is not just a matter of doing some bad action. Evil is a mindset that is created by a collection of people who do cruel acts to unsuspecting, innocent people and they do them for the power trip and pleasure. They get a high from doing harm. This is a long way different from choosing to do some bad action out of selfishness or out of ignorance, ie not seeing the bigger picture. I've discussed this on another thread. See EthanT's post on Good and Evil at http://www.noetic.org/discussions/open/255/ where myself and others discuss the matter if you are interested. The mindset that is created by these people is an "evil spirit" but the word spirit is really only another word for mind so it is the same as saying the "evil mind". They talk about being "evil ones" and "evil doers" and I have seen too that these people no longer have free will. They are all locked into this mindset and any that might deviate get killed. It's like any other gang in this way.
    Now, is evil outside of all. No it is a subset of ideas that exists within the "Great Mind" or "One Mind" or "The Mind of God", whatever we want to call it. Who can name the Nameless! I see the One Mind as the All but some people see it as a spiritual part, so they see a duality. I think that there is no real duality but there are two aspects to the One Reality or One Mind. One aspect is non-physical and the other is physical. We are separate in physical form but we all are part of the Oneness or One Mind. Those people who have become evil are really spiritually dead. The possibility of the state of Pure Awareness or what some people call the Superconscious state is lost to them. It is hard to try and explain things that are non-physical. From my experiences I see it as something like this. We are all creations of God and those that love God become a part of God’s memory, in a manner of speaking. We become united with God means we gain eternal life. People who reject God are lost. They don’t cease to be spiritually because whatever has come into being is eternal but they are in some kind of limbo. Now let me also say that if someone is an atheist doesn’t mean they have rejected God because it depends on what they understand from being atheist. I know people who call themselves atheist who just don’t believe in a personal God. I see them still as theists if they believe in a Oneness and Justice. God is beyond what organized religions set forth. No one has sole rights to God nor even an understanding of God. It is very hard to describe non-physical things and here I really run out of words.
    Kyrani.

  • charliet Jan 27, 2012

    We will all see what the changes will be, hopefully something that will start the world change towards peace, love and harmony.

    Kyrani - you speak often of evil and also that we are all one, I wonder, do you believe evil to be a separate force outside of the all or do you see it as being a part of everyone and therefore as part of the all. Not wanting to start a new thread here, just trying to get a better understanding of you and your thoughts.
    I believe that there is no separate evil, it is in all things, you have the ability to repress or allow, the choice is yours.

  • KYRANI Jan 26, 2012

    Hi Charliet and Jim Centi, I too agree that the changes we are about to experience involve a universal change in consciousness and to gain that there is an end of evil in the world. These vampires that you have spoken of are not as we see in the movies but human beings who are evil. I don't think this is a matter of intellect as in "who can grasp it" but a natural regaining of what we already have. At present there is a lot of misinformation, especially about ESP or psi and this has caused a lot of people to doubt their abilities and also mistake for thinking what is really perception of ideas presented by others. When this is realized people will gain a sudden widening in their understanding. It is amazing how much you can do and how much you can conquer simply by knowing the truth. I am under ferocious attack by evil people to stop me in my work to raise consciousness, especially about disease. However in the understanding that I have gained from several mystical experiences, one in particular lasted for 10days some years ago from the end of 1993 to the beginning of 1994. This experience really prepared me for the war that has been waged against me for over a decade now and in all of that I have gained insights that I now pass on to others to do my bit to help the transformation. I can see that this transformation is unstoppable and no matter how strong the evil may appear they are really powerless. It all hinges on deceit and intimidation. When people's awareness is raised they gain power to stand up to the evil in the spiritual realm. So this will not be some individuals gaining more enduring mystical experience, this will be the mass of humane people, no matter how misguided they may be at present owing to scientific views and social conditioning, gaining a sudden widening of awareness and realizing that in reality we are one.

  • Jim Centi Jan 26, 2012

    Hi again charliet,

    I’ve had a chance to think about your comment a bit.

    I don’t think that one can really be prepared for the experience. My experience occurred forty years ago and lasted about four hours, but my memory of it is as clear as if it happened yesterday.

    The only preparation I had was reading a small book by Krishnamurti entitled “Flight of the Eagle” and then taking a course in Transcendental Meditation [TM]. Back then the TM course was $100; I understand that it is now over $2000.

    After a few months of practicing TM, I attended one of its lectures. The instructor said, “There is no need to pay attention, you can meditate or simply relax, you will get what is appropriate for you whether you are paying attention or not.”

    I chose to simply relax using a technique involving deep breathing and sending waves of relaxation over the body. I recall having one thought before the experience began, “I have never been this relaxed”. As the experience began I recall having the thought, “Oh, that’s what Krishnamurti meant when he said that the observer and the observed are one”.

    I then entered a state of awe beyond any concept of awe and experienced the thought “Oh that’s what I am.” What occurred after that was outside the box where thoughts occur; there was direct knowing without the need for words or thoughts: repeating what I said in my response to xxxxxxxx:

    “In the direct knowing experience of which I speak, there is absolute knowing that the past and future are illusion; immortality or infinity is experienced and therefore, the familiar human sense of self does not exist. There is pure awareness that the true self is being experienced.”

    Any description of the experience beyond what I have said would not be useful. As Krishnamurti was fond of saying “The description is never the thing described.”

    If you would like to watch free videos of a guy who has had the experience and talks about it without describing it, go to http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=watchvideo.

    There you will find about fifty short excerpts of his lectures [3 –10 minutes]; select topics that grab you and enjoy…..Jim

  • Jim Centi Jan 25, 2012

    Hi charliet,

    I understand that all xxxxxxxx’s posts were removed at his request.

    You have looked into this possible transformation of consciousness a bit further than me. I wrote it with IONS members in mind and hadn’t given much thought to stragglers. I agree with you that we will just have to wait and see……Jim

  • charliet Jan 25, 2012

    Hi Jim

    I would venture to say no worries about being gruff, appears that xxxxx---- and 0o0o0o---- are both gone thanks to the IONS crew, you were not alone in your concerns. I had posted last year that with 2012 things would come out of the woodwork.

    That aside, I too see the changes coming, many more "revelations" for me, I hope it is a worldwide change, maybe it will be.

    One thing that bothers me is this, people like you and I and others have a knowledge and understanding, what of those who don't? Many people are still totally blind to God, creation, science, spirit etc. Think of even the educated who believe that vampires exist. What will happen when and if a mass change happens, maybe it will only be for those who can grasp it, we could speculate bur I think we will all have to wait and see.

  • Jim Centi Jan 25, 2012

    Dear xxxxxxxxxxxx or mrmathew,

    Perhaps I was a bit gruff with you.

    Of the many hundreds who review these discussions, most post very infrequently, perhaps a few times a year, only when they have something to say that will benefit the group.

    My grumpy reaction to you was caused, in part, because of what I believed to be your excessive posting which seemed to disrupt the smooth flow of these discussions. That seems to have been curtailed in the past week or so.

    If I post again this year, I will attempt to be more considerate of your feelings.

    Best wishes, Jim

  • Jim Centi Jan 20, 2012

    mrmathew1963,

    Interesting comments.

    I don’t know what gave you the impression that I require a link to gain a better understanding of the Mayan calendar.

    Reading your comments causes me to believe that either you did not carefully read my post or you did not understand it.

    For example, your comment “religion will not be abandoned, just modified as from the dawn of man we needed some sort of spiritual connection to our true being."

    In the direct knowing experience of which I speak, there is absolute knowing that the past and future are illusion; immortality or infinity is experienced and therefore, the familiar human sense of self does not exist. There is pure awareness that the true self is being experienced and there is absolutely no inclination to refer to any religion or theological construct to seek confirmation.

    I find your comments beginning “Another thing we need to look at” and “Thinking outside the box just means”….contain an aura of condescension. You seem to be speaking to me from a position of unabashed illusory authority.

    As stated in my original post, my conceptualization of how the transformation in consciousness will unfold is speculation. What is not speculation is my awareness of the sacred experience and the direct knowing which accompanies it.

    By exploring the writings or lectures of those who have consciously entered into the experience you will learn that the experience is ineffable. That is to say any attempt to explain it in detail or put it into the box where explanations and descriptions occur is futile. That is why I have only hinted at it……Jim

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