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On Feelings vs. Emotions ... Their Nature and Origin.

Posted Oct. 5, 2011 by LawrenceCarson in Open

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commented on Jan. 28, 2013
by dustproduction

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38


If the “brain-body” self-feedback system is likened to a “stereo-speaker” system to our “Emotions” then:

1- Is our “Spirit-Soul” self-feedback system producing our “Feelings?”
2- Has any work been done to distinguish the difference between these two energy frequencies
3- Has anyone any ideas as to the potential Nature …of both of these signals and the systems that generate them.
4- And finally … does anyone have any really far-out and out of the box thoughts … on the “potential” nature … and importance (or lack thereof ) on these two energy forms?

I would really enjoy ALL thoughts on this matter. Thank you!

  • 38 Comments  
  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Jan 28, 2013

    re: I have seen it a few times in my reading but have not made a note of the sources.

    This make it irrelevant reference. There is no context. This is all therefore conjecture
    As I mentioned before, there can be no discussion around a narrative.

  • Jeanine Broderick Jan 25, 2013

    This is not "spot on" but it is moving in the general direction and speaks of simultaneous communication from the brain without synapses. They are referring to it as wireless communication. It is still intra-body communication in this instance but wireless.

    http://www.web-books.com/eLibrary/ON/B0/B98/06M98.html

    ♡ Jeanine

  • Jeanine Broderick Jan 25, 2013

    @dustproduction

    I have seen it a few times in my reading but have not made a note of the sources. I will do so next time I stumble across it and post.

    I believe it was in Quantum Physics related materials. I have seen it at least twice. Maybe Holographic Universe was the first. The 2nd is not coming to me--although it was definitely more recent. It could have even been a study as I often read ones that interest me.

    It was not something I was concerned with documenting or evidencing for others so I did not make a note of it. I remember it clearly because it was something my spiritual teacher teaches that I had never heard of anywhere else so I did make a mental note that science was beginning to figure it out. From my perspective I see many things my teacher has taught that science later demonstrated to be true - and nothing science has demonstrated to be untrue. Dozens of things science is figuring out each year--very beneficial things for mankind--have been being taught by my teacher for decades. I don't expect anyone who has not followed my path to get this fully. I became an expert in the teachings of my teacher and then for a variety of reasons began looking at science and have been utterly amazed as science "discovers" things I know from that path. So it is not uncommon for me to find something scientists say--this is paraphrasing but close--regarding the brain being a sending/receiving tower rather than a storage device. The basic passage said something like, "We are beginning to suspect that the brain is not a storage device at all but a sending and receiving ........." It then went on to talk about some work an early brain surgeon had done with probes that stimulated thoughts that led to the conclusion (which the book was refuting based on other evidence that I do not recall the details of) that certain parts of the brain stored specific information.

    To me, it is consistent with the studies that show the impact of our belief about our intelligence and how intelligent we are. There has been some really great work demonstrating that someone who believes they are stupid will process information as if that is true but if that belief changes they process information at a more intelligent level. There is so much impact from belief on everything. I see it--to make sense of it in my own mind--as if someone who has a belief--let's say that they lack intelligence--they are tuned to an AM radio station--but change their belief about self and they tune to a new station--maybe an FM but certainly a different station. I've seen this in studies and first say it in The Genius in All of Us re: the impact of our belief on our level of intelligence and our function.

  • Jeanine Broderick Jan 25, 2013

    Part II
    I am not a scientist. I am a scholar and a teacher. My dominant interest is information that helps increase the ability of individuals to thrive. My own understanding of this helps me develop programs that help increase their beliefs--the reason it works is not necessary for them to use the tools to increase their belief in their abilities which leads to increased thriving. (The lowest end of this spectrum is Learned Helplessness (see Seligman but it is a continuum not a cliff and the further one pushes the belief in ability the greater the ability). Yes--I imagine there are limits but I do not believe we are anywhere near reaching them, individually or collectively.

    But if scientists could figure it out it would be a whole new ballgame from many perspectives. I would love it if my putting it out there leads someone to look at something in a new way and leads them to a discovery that helps many. We have so many "established" paradigms and even the most conscious of us can fine we are in boxes and even when we get out of one box that box may have been in another box and so on. I think most neuro-scientists have been so indoctrinated in the way many others believe it works but if a young one who was just learning saw that and remembered ti and as he or she was learning what is traditionally thought kept that thought in the back of the mind and asked the question periodically, "What if this is true? How would that look? How would it explain more that we do not yet understand? Is there anything that makes it impossible?" The conscious brain reinforces our existing beliefs so the chance of someone whose opinions are set being able to go anywhere with it are slim, IMO.
    ♡ Jeanine

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Jan 24, 2013

    Re: "Understanding that our brains are not storage devices but sending and receiving towers is an important aspect of the full understanding."

    Can you go into a little more detail about this? How does this supposedly work?

  • Jeanine Broderick Jan 24, 2013

    Lawrence,

    After looking at your profile (I was curious who was asking this question) I want to add that you may be very interested in the research Katherine Peil has done. She makes it available here: www.emotionalsentience.com I have put some of it on my site (in the blog section) in more layman's terms - one article has 6th Sense in the title and the other has a title like "are emotions guidance from God?"

    I use to live in Coeur d'Alene and was SEC registered with 5 licenses before choosing to follow my passion.

  • Jeanine Broderick Jan 24, 2013

    We are not our bodies. We inhabit our bodies but not all of our focus is in our body. We are so much more than our bodies.

    When we are in a body we have two perspectives. The perspective of the whole of us (which is comprised of the energy of Love) has a perspective that always and only comes from the perspective of Love. (Whole Self/Higher Self/Inner Being/Source/God)

    Then there is the human perspective which can be in alignment with the perspective of the part of us that is not focused in a body or not. (Human Self) We have free will to determine our actions and decide how to perceive things (although the filters in our brains--largely influenced by beliefs, expectation, emotional stance and focus) impact our perception we are capable of consciously adjusting our filters.

    Every thought we (Human Self) think receives feedback telling us if we are thinking in alignment with our Whole Self. If we are in alignment we have emotions like Love, Awe, Interest, Passion, Enthusiasm, Appreciation, etc. The less in alignment with the Whole Self our Human Self thoughts are--the worse we feel.

    The bad feeling emotions ARE NOT PUNISHMENT for thinking from a different perspective. They are guidance just like the good feeling emotions are guidance.

    We intended to enjoy our time here. Our being here adds tremendous value to All That Is (I won't go into that here but it has to do with the value of unique perspectives - something each and everyone of us has). Also, our bodies work better when we feel emotionally good. (See my website for copious citations to supporting science.) The guidance is to let us know what thoughts are leading us where we want to go and which are moving away from where we want to go.

    Where we want to go is our decision. As we move through life we are continually making evaluations, judgments, etc. about what would be better and our Whole Self holds the vision of the highest of these (cumulatively) and guides us toward those desires on the path of least resistance. Listening to and following our emotional guidance leads us to our greatest achievements.

    The feedback system was designed as emotions because we can feel emotions even as we think and speak so we can receive the communication (guidance) from our Whole Self even when our brains are engaged and focused elsewhere.

    Understanding that our brains are not storage devices but sending and receiving towers is an important aspect of the full understanding.
    An individual can play around with the emotional guidance--it is easy to do and one can come to KNOW with certainty that it works.
    ♡ Jeanine

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 03, 2012

    This is how a neuroscientist sees it:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q06YIWCR2Js&feature=relmfu

  • Anonymous Icon

    LawrenceCarson Nov 02, 2012

    To refresh this group-storming session, and if anyone is still interested in delving deep within the epistemological processes by which we – and arguably for the most part “unconsciously” create and then make sense of our “subjective ontological maps of reality” … here are the questions once again.

    Contextual Framework:
    Let us assume (please follow this “if” presupposition) that a) Feelings and Emotions are two totally different energy frequencies with two totally different “Natures” and that both have similar yet different impacts upon a person’s “State of Mind.”

    With that as the Contextual Hypothesis then:

    What precise process generates [XYZ?] --> [of Emotions] and what are their driving Purpose, their typical generic Process … and what are the Products / Results that they seek to create?
    UVWs?  (Induces and Infuses Emotions) --> which creates and impacts XYZs? States of Mind

    What precise process generates [ABC ?] --> [of Feelings] and what are their driving Purpose, their typical generic Process … and what are the Products / Results that they seek to create?
    ABCs? --> (Induces and Infuses Feelings) --> which creates and impacts DEFs? States of Mind

    SUMMARY:
    What are the UVWs and resulting XYZs … AND … What are the ABC’s and resulting DEFs … AND …. compare and contrast both “Supply Chains” that are driving humanity’s “Subjective Senses?”

    If you wish to correspond privately please feel free to email me directly in these research regards at --> metamuser@centurylinjk.net

  • KYRANI Feb 08, 2012

    Yes frequencytuner I do agree. Everything is energy and energy is the oscillation between the known and the unknown, physical and non-physical. But let me elaborate better on the avatar and the video game. In the highest sense, the Nameless One (God), that which is Being/Existence Itself, is playing a game and that game is reality (as we know it). If we go a little further down from that perhaps we are the ideas of the creator, I suspect this is what spiritual beings are. And we have projected for us /or perhaps it is that as spiritual beings we project a physical form.. the avatar. So who is really playing the video game of reality on the magic screen of the One Mind? In mystical experience the return is to Being Itself. It may well be from the One Universal Mind that the “strings” are pulled that makes this little puppet-clown move and dance and sing and fancifully engage in loving poetry of “Thou and I”? But when that ephemeral being, the “I” abruptly disappears, the body continues to be and functions immaculately, an empty temple! So who lit the candles on the altar, who set the incense burning and who placed the sweet bread offerings?

  • frequencytuner Feb 01, 2012


    the body is a tool, a sensing instrument to perceive energy. This energy is sensed and the sent to the brain for processing. This processing is what gives the illusion of reality, like your avatar playing a video game. Agree or not, energy is everywhere and is everything. Within the body there are glands, as well as within the brain. These glands are a topic too broad to discuss at length on this post, but it should be noted that glands excrete hormones and hormones are the driving force of life.

    This is not out of the box, but rather within the sphere.

  • KYRANI Jan 30, 2012

    @ bobNCONUS Sorry but I beg to differ with you. Bad choices are not necessarily from experience but deception! And good choices are from knowing the truth. Furthermore feelings we are talking about mental perceptions, as I understood the original question and not sensations in the body. But in any case love, gratitude and kindness are not feelings but states of mind.

  • KYRANI Jan 30, 2012

    @ LawrenceCarson,
    Perception is not only conscious awareness! Consider a comfort zone is so rapidly employed at times that the reason for it, is not consciously known. We can experience the emotion and not even recognize it. For instance we can experience fear or anger and only know that we suddenly feel hot. A part of the problem here has to do with what is conscious and what is subconscious/unconscious. If you practice meditation you become aware that in the mind, in the "ordinary state of waking consciousness", a continuous stream of thoughts. When you look closely at this stream you find that one thought follows the next and in between them is void. There are no two thoughts in parallel. All thoughts are in series. Why do we lose awareness of some? The level of awareness/ consciousness remarkably does not change. We are at all times fully aware. HOWEVER the sharpness of focus of our attention changes. There are two basic types of coping habits that bring about comfort zones and we learn them early in life. They are as simple as. All we need to do is to change our breathing. If you go to my blog at wordpress here http://kyrani99.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/comfort-zones-coping-habits/ you can read my discoveries and reasoning. You ought to do some experiments with your group by putting them into danger but giving them no sensory information about the danger. You will find that they will experience suddenly feeling hot (a bit slower reaction if the emotion is anger) but they will not know that this is due to fear (or anger). The emotion is the bodily reactivity, which includes the processes that take part in the brain. The perception is of an issue and that is the reason for the emotion. So for instance the person either insightfully or through sensory means perceives danger thus the body is ignited into action, in order to address that issue. The body needs to prepare itself for rapid strenuous action at a moment's notice and to artificially maintain that state of readiness.. that is fear. Medical scientists want to call this "the fight or flight response" but that is only because they want to create a dichotomy of mental and physical diseases so they can sell their schedules of drugs and medical procedures. The only question is do we include the perception as part of emotion or do we keep them separate? The idea of danger sets fear into motion in the body immediately. We have only to see our reaction when we mistake rubber tubing for a snake. If the perception is insightfully grasped then it can be completely unconscious and the emotion or reactivity in the body can be misread and even completely mistaken. So for instance toxic people use "a procedure" to cause another person to fall in love at first sight and the deception is all based on a misreading of the bodily reactivity of fear when married together with misleading presentation of ideas. I explain how that is done here http://kyrani99.wordpress.com/category/love-at-1st-sight/

  • Anonymous Icon

    LawrenceCarson Jan 29, 2012

    KYRANINov 12, 2011 wrote (shared the following belief) .... "The origin of emotion is also perception"

    I have a question kyraninov. If the origin of emotion Emanates ... only from the process called perception ...i.e. conscious awarness ... then ...
    That would imply that one can not have a subconscious emotion for to be an emotion it must be percieved. But that refutes the belief's initial premise.

    Can you rethink and then reshare? I love taking an initial belief ... finding its falsehood ... and then using that as a stair step to a higher level of seeing. A Socratic elevator I guess. :-D

  • Anonymous Icon

    LawrenceCarson Jan 29, 2012

    Re the above posts ... I love these:

    1 - An emotion is a state of present. A feeling expands beyond the present." (Tucca)
    2 - Emotions are a guidence system . (But then perhaps so are "feelings." (BobNCONUS)
    3 - emotions are more personal, and feelings something that is coming from the global consciousness (Truiti)
    4 - Can be deduced bio-electro-chemically to a bunch of mentally triggered (Frequencytuner) (But the mind is an energy field ... I think you meant to use the word 'brain" ... and not "mentally" . I personally think the brain as a living signal transformer ... and the "mind field" as the source of the signals. :-) ... in spite of what the neuro-brain scientists "claim." Let them have one OBE or NDE and then watch what they do with those old opinions. :-D

    Keep the ideas coming and thanks a bunch. I am going to be using these ideas as spring boards for a workshop I am "giving" to Boise Community Education this spring .... entitled ... "Naviagating the Georgraphy of Mind."

  • BobNCONUS Jan 13, 2012

    RE: MRMATHEW\
    l agree completely with your posting, enjoyed the insight on vibration and am fairly well read on the technical aspects of how it all works. I tend to focus more on the practical application on the physical plane which deals with our emotions and how we feel. After all we are here and in this short period of physical life trying to gain a more comprehensive insight into the mind, self and reality. In this virational Universe we awakened humans are afforded the the opportunity to decipher the vibrations through the physical being. Of course in the “dead space” there are no emotions and feelings. So during this time here on our planet many of us try to gain all the knowledge we can and hope to gain Wisdom. As this example:
    What is wisdom?
    Making good choices.
    How do I make good choices?
    From experience.
    How do I gain experience?
    By making bad choices :)

  • BobNCONUS Jan 09, 2012

    Emotions are a guidence system which cause feelings. If the feelings are good such as love, kindness gratitude etc. then our soul/spirit is in harmony with what we are doing and thinking in the physical world. If our feelings are bad we are doing or thinking something that is not in harmony with our soul/spirit. The emotion fear can save our life on the primal level, however if it is not interpreted correctly it may be our lack of faith or self doubt which if we follow that emotion, can be debilitating to our endeavors.
    So hows that for far out ? :)

  • Anonymous Icon

    tucca Jan 07, 2012

    Are you asking about a differance between a present state like happiness or sadness and a sensing of situations such as dread or anticipation? An emotion is a state of present. A feeling expands beyond the present.

  • KYRANI Jan 06, 2012

    First of all let me say that before I had any chance to answer their criticisms, of which I can answer all, they cut me off and ban me permanently from any further participation. What't their problem?
    Secondly with respect to the evil. Maybe you find that a billion people on the earth that are sick owing to illnesses that are caused through toxic relationship is not worth investigation. Ah what the heck there a lot of money made making them well, or keeping them on drugs for a life time or whatever and besides exposing the evil means a lot of people in the biomedical industry get to loose their jobs because people can make themselves well when they know the truth. Sure not worth chasing the evil and exposing it if you think like that. I don't think like that. I think that doing a clean sweep is necessary and will be done! As for missing the good. Don't kid yourself. I have found what is good, a treasure richer than any and all earthly treasures!

  • KYRANI Dec 20, 2011

    @truiti I quite agree with you that the "our" is the result of ego or personal self. As I described earlier in this blog the personal self is an ephemeral being that is an aggregate of ideas and associated bodily reactivity, mainly in the form of emotion. When the personal self is gone, ie in a mystical experience there is Universal /Impersonal Self (Being) experiencing Itself. And it is all inclusive. The experience of every individual thing and the totality as well.
    Language is certainly a serious limitation. It is impossible for this reason (as well as others) to describe the mystical experience. That is why many religious/spiritual people use allegory and myth and parables etc.
    Emotions and feelings however I do not consider to be energy forms.
    Emotions I see as the rational changes /modifications in whole body function (including the brain) because some job needs to be done in or by the body.
    Feelings I see as perceptions both sensory aided and direct mental perception but I am not at this point willing to call it energy. What is it? I don't know. All I am willing to say is that there is what we perceive as information in the non-physical aspect of reality and that we perceive.

  • Anonymous Icon

    truiti Dec 19, 2011

    Hi Kirani, let me share my thoughts with you please,
    first question, there is no such thing as " our " feelings.( this is the intervention of ego). however we experience things at a "personal level", our holographic universe experience every experiences simultaneously , from anything that got energy, and that include animals, plants,rocks, wind, water etc.
    secondly i believe that emotions are more personal, and feelings something that is coming from the global consciousness, however we need to ameliorate our language cause its creates limitations by itself when we try to communicate at such level.
    Finally the potential of those energy's is infinite and affect straight away the surrounding reality as we know it : whatever we focus on expends.
    I hope that those brief answers bring you food for thoughts my friend.
    Regards, fab

  • KYRANI Dec 12, 2011

    I'm sorry I don't have anything to say here because I don't see either feeling nor emotions as energy field. Sorry.

  • Anonymous Icon

    LawrenceCarson Dec 01, 2011

    Part 2
    My Question to All at this IONS site:

    How do you “consciously discern” the IEMF (energy fields) between FEELINGS … vs. EMOTIONS? I really would like everyone + those that are just looking at this site … to help me out here. No answer is incorrect … all is working … please share your experiences.

    And once again, I thank you all for your willingness to assist me to share with others … the nature of learning how to live in a world of love … dignity … peace and joy.

    Lawrence Carson – Boise/Meridian Idaho

  • Anonymous Icon

    LawrenceCarson Dec 01, 2011

    Part 1
    What an absolute JOY … it is to be able to s l o w l y … read, decipher and experientially understand what Kyrani, Frequencytuner, and Gretchen have shared.

    My Gratitude and Understanding
    Thank you all very much. It always gives me comfort to hear others re-affirm what I have been able to personally experience (the dots) … when I have had different and very impactful life changing “Out of Body Experiences” … including my Awareness (the observer) … merging and becoming one with the infinite field of Awareness = The Void = The Nothingness = The Timeless, Space-less, Always-ness … Un-describe-able-ness …” Mind Field State” of OneBeing-ness …. and then being escorted out of this fabulous realm by a Cosmic Tour Guide and invited into three incredibly different “Universal Living Libraries.”

    Thank you all for your experiential thoughts regarding :
    The Experiential Belief Maps that you have constructed about the Nature and Eternal Truth of …
    A) The i) Micro, ii) Meta and iii) Infinite Mind Fields of Awareness
    B) The Various Energy Frequencies that Consciously Live Within these Fields (aka Love, Essons, Ethere-ons, Awareness, etc.)
    C) The Origin, Nature and Purpose of and the Supply Chain of “Intended Effects” of:
    a. EMOTIONS: Belief Generating Emotions (I sense these are driven by Living and yet untrained Ego Beliefs)
    b. FEELINGS: ESP Signal Generating Feelings (I sense these are driven by Living and highly trained Soul Beliefs)

    My Qwest
    This coming spring I have offered and two local groups of explorers (Boise Community Education and a group of Life Spring & EST like Experiential Training - Impact, Inc. & Spectrum Training) a three day free experiential workshop entitled Navigating the Geography of Mind. The purpose is to offer those with a highly inquisitive and courageous nature to delve within a realm where most fear to even consider. And to do that they will need to be pre-equipped with experientially based Navigational Insights prior to departing their belief maps of certainty.

    Then one month after this exploration I have requested we all meet again to openly share what has changed? What do they now notice that was once hidden in the unknown? How have their feeling and emotional generators changed. Then with this feedback hopefully we collectively will be able to enhance and elevate the process of noticing, experiencing, integrating and transcending the hidden boxes of our belief maps … our opinion libraries … and finally take charge of those living belief programs (memes) and put the Captain back in charge of her & his ship of life.

  • KYRANI Nov 26, 2011

    At LawrenceCarson (and the last bit)
    You then ask “Who do you listen to … when … and why?”
    The emotions are always reliable if we appreciate that they are like the compass needle always pointing to issues that are either obvious or unseen and need to be discovered. So that aid in navigation. The feelings are those that need to be deciphered because they are essentially mental perceptions. They may be true perceptions of a situation.. intuition given from the Nameless One. Or they may be insightful perceptions, i.e., ideas presented by the nameless. If one is of guard one might make mistakes but generally one rule of thumb separates them. The first ones, the intuitions are “voiceless” or even more generally one could say “sensationless”. The second ones have sensation-like qualities. If someone tries to present ideas they will need to either voice those mentally or convey a sensation as in sight, smell, touch, taste, and hearing. So those of the nameless can be identified and one should always try to be vigil to identify them because these presentations (insightful perceptions) may be deliberate or not deliberate. That is to say someone may want to influence you (the “would-be-if-they-could-be” navigators) but they may also be some related person’s thinking. If such thinking bears relevance to you then you are able to easily mentally perceive it, if not all then in part. Both are ESP, so both are feelings. And I might also add that the nameless that wants to influence only remain nameless while ever you do not tune into them because if you do you soon discover who it is, even if you never met them in the flesh!
    And as the saying goes "it is the set of the sail and not of the gale that determines the way the ship will go", but who sets the sail?
    I, as personal self am the feelings and the emotions. The captain is the Immortal Self and I remain obedient, happy to be continually erased until there is nothing left, in order for the ship to go on course, on schedule so the work is done.

  • KYRANI Nov 26, 2011

    At LawrenceCarson I don’t know if you are still interested but here is the rest.
    I will continue now to discuss belief because I don’t see it quite like your supposition. I see two types of beliefs. On the one hand are those things that are eternally true or what some people call absolute truths of which one can say “I believe”. So for instance that the nature of the universe is essentially indeterminate and mutable, that our essential nature is nothingness or “of the Void” and immutable are what I know are eternally true. The other type of belief is “what can be conjured up”. We can influence the very nature of the universe and thereby bring into being anything and everything.. the sky is the limit so to speak –provided that we can believe it! When creating we say “there be…” or “it is thus and so” and this is belief. To use this power of the mind one needs to have integrity of mind, ie no dark side. One may have secrets that they don’t want to or are reluctant to share, but that does not constitute a dark side. Anyway I don’t want to get sidetracked here.

    Next the metaphor you give
    “Metaphor
    You are the captain of a 120 foot beautiful transoceanic, sea-going sail boat. It is you and only you that stands watch at the helm … with hands firmly grasping the wheel.
    You have three navigators telling you what to do and when. None of them necessarily agree with the advice of the other. One is called feelings … one is called emotions … and the other is nameless.”
    This is not exactly my experience. My experience is as the player of a computer game and the avatar that the player uses to play with on the screen or cyber space. To try and fit it into your metaphor it would be like the Higher Self / The Nameless One is the captain and I, the personal self (a created, ephemeral being) is made of the feelings and the emotions that move the body or in this case the boat. And the nameless is all those others that would seek to influence me. Ultimately in my life it is always the Nameless One navigating because in truth there is no one on the boat!

  • KYRANI Nov 16, 2011

    •@Gretchen Dreisbach
    I don't see the mind as anything other than ONE! It has two aspects. One aspect is like the canvas and the other is like the drawing or painting that is created on the canvas. All things in creation have a one to one correspondence with the "canvas", which in the case of Reality is a singularity that is it is timeless, spaceless and contains infinite potential. The mind of the created forms is various, depending on whether they are human (highest form) or animal, plant, mineral (lowest form). I agree with you that the heart is significant because it is the body's time keeper as well as pumping blood. At a particular tempo and rhythm the place of peace is found in which the temporal self (personal self/ego) vanishes and the true self which is the Impersonal or Universal self experiences Itself. Subject and object disappear and only the experiencing remains. You can go beyond all dimensions, you are /exist beyond all dimentions - not just saying!
    I would further quote the words of Krishna in the Gita
    "To love is to know me, Thy inner most self, the truth that "I am".

  • Gretchen Dreisbach Nov 14, 2011

    What if the mind is electric and the heart is magnetic and consciousness is electromagnetic? (and so is the grid of the earth...)
    LOVE is not just an emotion it is energy at its highest vibration. If the heart's field is 5000 times more vibrant than the brain then
    heart based energy will help take us safely into 5D and beyond........just sayin...;)

  • KYRANI Nov 14, 2011

    @frequencytuner
    I am not referring to any energy whatsoever. Emotions are the whole bodily reactivity (which includes the brain) and such reactivity comes about because some task needs to be undertaken by the body or in the body. That bodily reactivity is not arbitrary, it is the result of ideas that are deemed relevant or important for some reason. It is that simple. Neuroscientists, in my opinion, have been lead astray by psychiatrists, who want to find some relevance now that the "ghost in the machine" is seen to be a myth.
    As for the heart, I don't believe there is any energy other that what the heart muscles etc., produce in order for it to function and be alive. However the heart is significant in the scheme of things. The heart doesn't only pump blood. It is the time keeper so to speak. If it speeds up then the body's metabolism increases and if it goes slower sleep is enabled. In its "rest condition", which is around 60 b/min but that varies between individuals it holds the body at rest/ base conditions. It is unclear what you take to mean feeling. I am using the word to mean becoming aware of something and particularly through direct mental perception or ESP.

  • frequencytuner Nov 13, 2011

    On Point #4: This energy you speak of, referring to emotions and feelings, can be deduced bio-electro-chemically to a bunch of mentally triggered impulses sending different varieties of hormones and chemicals and weird scientific things like enzymes and proteins through the body. This will fully explain the onset and experience of emotions. However, emotions do not exist in isolation. Feelings can be explained away by different spiritual perspectives implying that it is a 6th sense, superior to the other 5 by way of accessing and experiencing part of the "self" that is beyond the comprehension of modern science. Feeling co-exists within and beyond the sense perceptible realm.

    An easy likeness is to see feelings as the energy stored and dissipated by the heart. It will either be a positive or negative energy and depending on the intensity of that "feeling" the energy released will be equal. This is like deep resentment equivalent to admiration. Uncertainty equal to confidence. rage equal to joy. peace equal to chaos. This "feeling" is a "polarized" energy resonating from the "heart". What each individual chooses to do with this energy - ie - create emotions mentally linked to it - is infinitely endless in possibilities.

    Emotions are likened to energy stored and released by the brain. They are as fleeting as thoughts and imagined like the "water" in the "mind". This water is "emotion", like the ocean. Our thoughts stir it up and agitate it and energy is released. The display of this energy manifests in infinite possibilities. It could be a frown or a scream. A smile or tears. a sincere talk or a yelling match. The emotion will manifest - most times - in the same manner at the "feeling" beneath it, positively or negatively directed, in a manner unique to every individual and circumstance.

  • KYRANI Nov 12, 2011

    @LawrenceCarson What is the “Origin” (not effect) of emotions?
    The origin of emotion is also perception. Ideas indicate issues so they indicate actions that need to be taken by the body or in the body. Contrary to the mainstream psychiatrist’s point of view (who deny ESP) I believe that all emotion is rational action. If the issues are unclear then the bodily reactivity may be seemingly irrational. If the ideas are too nebulous or fleeting as to be insufficiently conscious then the bodily reactivity may be completely mistaken for something else. For example the ideas/issues of danger means action may need to be taken suddenly /rapidly and strenuously. Thus energy production in the skeletal musculature must be increased. This is one of the key aspects of fear. If the ideas of danger are unclear and that can be done when the danger is deviously posed by someone in relationship, then the raise in metabolism may be simply mistaken for “feeling hot for some reason” or it may be mistaken as excitation, an “emotional charge up”, which of course it is but can then be colored by subsequent presentation of ideas (ESP within relationship so very strong) as to give a false impression of what that emotional charge up is all about. This is commonly exploited in foul game play by toxic/evil people to create all manner of situations including the false impression in the person targeted of “fallen in love at first sight” with whoever is a key game player. So while emotion should always be given serious consideration and used to discover the issues behind it, especially if those issues are unclear, one has also to beware of the pitfalls. There are two basic ways to consider the bodily reactivity. One is to learn to identify the bodily charge up of the different emotions purely by what is happening in the body. Note I don’t consider that emotion is something with an origin and an effect but rather the perceptions (origin) give rise to emotions that are themselves the effect. The other is to appreciate the difference between presented ideas and natural perceptions, that is not the influence of others.
    Then you ask “And if the “Nature” of their Origins are different … then does it make sense from a evolutionary calling to be able to discern one from the other?
    The nature of the origin of both feelings (mental perceptions /ESP) and emotions is the same.
    What do you mean when you say “an evolutionary calling”?
    Next for the “If”…. beliefs are living conscious and responsive energy systems! before we go sailing!

  • KYRANI Nov 12, 2011

    @ LawrenceCarson I answer first this question What is the “Origin” (not effect) of feelings?
    Without the "Let us both presuppose (“IF”) beliefs are living conscious and responsive energy systems" till later.
    Feeling = ESP. So really the question is: what is the origin of mental perceptions? And I must say here that I consider mind as the totality. It has two aspects. The one is the field of potentiality (it can be thought of as “The Great Void” or as a singularity that underpins all material things –either way same deal) and the field of Form (creation); ie mind is the 2 aspects of reality non-physical/essential nature and physical/nature. We have ESP which is Perception ( or what I call DMP or direct mental perception) and the “thing” perceived or idea / thought. is the idea something different from awareness? I say no so your question is about the origin of perception/idea.
    I can answer this question from "my" mystical experience. It is difficult to discuss because the personal self entity is gone.. extinguished. However I’ll try. There is not complete extinction in the mystical experience in that what is left is the Universal Self or Identity or Being whatever are we to call it? Mystical experience is Universal Self experiencing Itself! The practice that leads to extinction is not "doing something" but rather "not doing" or "not being". What is realized is that awareness is really all that there is –it becomes bound up or identifies with the created personal self. Thus is the “fall from Grace”. Enlightenment or what we call apotheosis is really the restoration of Grace. Awareness is unbroken but appears broken (into awareness and consciousness, as seen in our ordinary experience in being aware that we are conscious). Consider a person can be in a coma or die and come back to life or be under anesthetics and relate some experiences of having been aware. What is happening? I explain this as the following. In unconsciousness the personal self is gone but awareness does not go away. Awareness is not something that is unique to any individual it is the universal or collective (it is mind). Everything in the cosmos/ universe is awareness, from the subatomic particles to stars etc. In the mystical experience it is as if you experience yourself or identify yourself in every thing around you but not as separate –not as “you experience yourself”. There is no experiencer and no self experienced. There is only the experiencing. It is impossible to describe because we speak in words that depict an observer and objects. So the origin of perception is perception, pure awareness! Perception/pure awareness is the origin/beginning and the end.
    Next post I’ll answer the question What is the “Origin” (not effect) of emotions?

  • Anonymous Icon

    LawrenceCarson Oct 14, 2011

    At Kyrani ... Nice comments and thank you very much. It really sent me out thinking. 

    As a follow-up may I ask you to share your current thoughts on the following?

    Let us both presuppose (“IF”) beliefs are living conscious and responsive energy systems (see Are Electrons Aware blog comments) then:

    What is the “Origin” (not effect) of feelings?
    What is the “Origin” (not effect) of emotions?
    And if the “Nature” of their Origins are different … then does it make sense from a evolutionary calling to be able to discern one from the other?

    Metaphor
    You are the captain of a 120 foot beautiful transoceanic, sea-going sail boat. It is you and only you that stands watch at the helm … with hands firmly grasping the wheel.

    You have three navigators telling you what to do and when. None of them necessarily agree with the advice of the other. One is called feelings … one is called emotions … and the other is nameless.

    Who do you listen to … when … and why?

    Lawrence pondering ... this ... that ... and other things ... all through the meta-scope of curiosity.

  • KYRANI Oct 12, 2011

    You say "When one's mind is silent, emotions are, .." If you meditate and get experienced at meditation you will find a state where there is no mental reactivity to any thoughts that may arise and be observed. You could call this the mind as being silent if you consider the personal aspect only and not the universal, however you will find total rest and no emotion. But again you seem to be considering things that I would not have called emotion such as empathy. I see empathy as an awareness of our connectivity and it may then arouse an emotion if we are moved by what we observe in another.

  • KYRANI Oct 10, 2011

    Feeling are direct mental perceptions or ESP. The following are my observations. Emotions are totally physiological processes (include brain activity). Ideas that indicate issue of 5 main categories -danger, injustices, loss, gains/pleasure and perplexity. These give rise to fear, anger, grief, joy and worry. So for example fear is the movement of the body to a state of readiness to take rapid, strenuous action should it be required and heightened perceptions. Also the decline of systems not needed (digestion and reproduction/sexuality and immunity where the indicating ideas of danger are seen to be external -where the danger is perceived to be internal the immune system may be highly activated -if the danger is presented by others in relationship (foul game play of evil/toxic people) and perceived (ESP) then the immunity may be highly activated and erroneously attack an area of the body.(mirror neurons are involved).
    Ideas that arise (either out of thinking/reasoning or perceptions) and are deemed relevant act as directives to the body. eg the idea of danger causes the body to fear. If experiments done that mimic the foul play that occurs within toxic relationships (and which are the real causes of the major diseases) they would demonstrate ESP in a dramatic fashion. At present many if not all experiments are done with double blinding in place, which means the subjects are relationally distanced. This takes away their insightful perceptions. I see two types of ESP. One is at a premium inside of personal relationships and relationships in general. The other involves our relationship with everything in the cosmos. In both cases we can explain these when we consider that the mind is one and of a non-physical nature and a platform that we all share. The mind is a singularity that contains everything, past, present and future. It is timeless and spaceless & has a one to one correspondence with all aspects of the physical realm but not apart from it. With relationships a commonality is created that enhances ESP. With the cosmos we have a one to one relationship thru the singularity (the One Mind /"Essential Nature"). This means we can be perceptive of every detail of the cosmos. Why do we not experience this readily. -my finding it's the result of living within a comfort zone, which is a state of mental fuzz and loss of the super conscious state. By unlearning bad breathing habits that lead to comfort zones, such as shallow breathing that gives rise to lethargy and deep breathing that gives rise to higher energy production in the body and the mental distraction that this brings into being, we can recover the full range of awareness that we already have. I don't think that awareness changes but the brain activity is modified. Meditational practices of a variety of sorts can restore the brain activity that is necessary for full awareness and hence full mental perception and enhanced sensory perception.

  • Anonymous Icon

    typo Oct 05, 2011

    I meant more if you are aware with the terms and underlying concepts.
    Albeit, what else can be aware? What is left? Perhaps the mental body provides learned context, that it is transient and evolves with its envirornment, it is not the seer, nor the seen but that which is context and reference, what becomes personality, which is inert....but it creates momentum, a third party which n part defines consciousness by creating a bound and a point of reference. So, in a sense, how can that which is made up of what is not, is recalled, have life other than what is given by faith, or confidence?
    So, albeit you may have read into it, I beleive your hope was in fact correct.
    I posit, I am not sure that, the answer lies in the flux that is part of energy, that it is, either wave or paticularized, or differntiated. In flux state, it exists in flux, or a probable state, meaning its potential. There is stated that in physics we must add infinity to calculations on probability to account for all possible worlds, meaning, that this flux contains all possible states but breaks down to the most conservative or probable, or intellgienct outcome.
    It may be here that is our link to perception, and also choice, but that, choice or indiviudal imagination is not definied, or cannot be, nor limited, defacto, but would be limited by gross learning of the indiviudal, so that a virutal limit exists....which allows for the illsion of self....
    I hope I put that well. I am not sure if anyone has considered this, but woudl be flattering to think I was close and that I did something original. Haha. BUt that as we move upward in concsiousness, we enter multidimentional realities until i think we reach infinity......but, hmmm.....
    We have the personality and the identity. Those are the two momentums...the shadow and the seer. TO get them to work together, means to remove conflict withint the mind. Thus we have a incomplete picture of reality which is out personality, and the actual reality and for man, modern especially, we favor knowledge and thus, we have more faith in the past than the present, and base out choices to act in life, and actually are moved emotionally to act, by emotioanl value judgements, and under access feeling, and thus most peopel live in the world of roles and mechanically and develope very little relatioship with reality, or in other words they arent listening. It is normal, and I think, the mechanics of nature are meant to do this., culture being the software or firmware passed on, that is the main problem as its dualistic or materialistic and knowledge wonted.
    I hope this is of worth. I will look at your other piece.

  • Anonymous Icon

    LawrenceCarson Oct 05, 2011

    @nous 777:

    #1) You said in part " if you are aware with them..."
    The use of the preposition "with" (pre-positioning for an alternate point of view) would seem to imply that energy is also aware. This is an extremely important research that I am interested in. Did you mean to imply that or is that just my projected beliefs showing up again? :-) (see my other discussion thread “
    Is The Electron Conscious?” that I also posted tonight.

    #2) I really liked the depth of your comments. They are in accord with what I have experienced. The question is ... of which you lightly addressed ... how can we discern one from the other ... the causal source difference ... so as to improve our decision making processes? It’s as though we are all captains of our ships with two different compasses and navigators. Can you imagine how confusing would that would be to a lost sailor ... in an eternal and starless night?

    Thank you for your post!

  • Anonymous Icon

    typo Oct 05, 2011

    Feeling I catagorize as insight, perceptual or intellgience/awareness based, whereas emotions are responces to self value and concepts in the mental body and expressed in the torso gereally in an area of the body that reflects the relationship of the self to what its thinking about[e.g. visceral, forehead chest].
    But that feelings we catagorise as communication or observation ojectively, and emotions are tied to thoughts and values attached to learned concepts of good or bad and expressed in a distinct spectrum of energy.
    But this is an important distinction. Feeling and emotions often are felt togethr and one can be confused by the other, unless one can forge a equalibrium of allofness where one can distingush what one is creating as to what one is not. It can be difficult.
    Though has been said to be fear based as it is a responce to a observed or imagined inbalance, but that thought and consciosuness are deeply connected as both depend on a mental body of ideas to create context.
    When one's mind is silent, emotions are, [unless there is a physiological imbalance and the body is using emotion to motivate the mind to adress the inbalance, as that is what emotions are for, to motivate and work to override the intellect to achieve action autonomically or sympathetically]. one senses well being, which is the natural state of being. tranquility.
    In cases such as empathy, its interesting as one experiences collective emotion, so that can take time getting used to.
    Best case it to know oneself and one's mind first of all so ones ability to witness what is one's own and what is truly insight. It can be very difficult.
    The mind can easily by associatation think its feeling when its merely anticipating and imagining.
    They say, emotions exist betweeen the etheral and psychical bodies, if you are aware with them. But if one is sensitive to the life energy system flowing by way of the spine, there are[in my opinion] areas or medians at points which each pocket deals with an area of self concept/world opinion, and ther relationshiops thereunto and also govorns those areas physiologically and the vatious physiological systems.
    As one developes, or becomes more sensitive, one realizes that, albeit most of our self opinion is founded on time space information and experience, that, they are not confined or absolutly determined.
    But its a complex subject and since all systems are interconnected, one can't talk about sometihng seperately without doing injustice to what is actually going on holsitically.

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