Does IONS Org. think itself teacher or learner? I wonder if there is any learning going on here... or only preaching & posturing.

Posted Sept. 7, 2011 by DyckDyck in Open

commented on Sept. 17, 2011
by DyckDyck



Before joining as a paid member I wanted to observe IONS to see if it fit my idea of an openly-inquiring and scientific body.

I get the feeling that this organization is one that only presumes to bestow on its members, its own 'wisdom' or those it sanctions. There are lectures, workshops, events, videos, articles, etc., which are evidently all output. No doubt there is scientific research by those with credentials... who either presume to know, or admit not-to-know but only to others with equal credentials. I don't see a call for open input, debate, discussion that would fit the field of inquiry. Such a hierarchical and closed environment it appears. Am I wrong?

Of course, there is this Discussion Category. But, I see little genuine inquiry going on among the members, and a complete absence of IONS staff participation in open inquiry. Where's the spirit of curiosity, wonder, exploration????

Isn't it obvious to anyone but me that those who profess to know, are the very ones who are most ignorant? I'll hang on a little longer at this forum (where I evidently don't belong) to see what response this brings.

  • DyckDyck Sep 17, 2011

    What nice surprise responses from IONS staff. Thank you Heidi for blog info. Marilyn, your invitation is gladly accepted.

    Assuming we have energy, to me an attitude of inquiry is most important in IONS community. It obviously underlies all learning. Yet (except for children) inquiry is extremely difficult. Beyond ego, isn't it required that to learn one must at least be tentative about what one knows?

    The discussion forums might be an invigorating lab for inquiry, for learning how to inquire. Current discussions seem almost devoid of a spirit of learning. They are naturally full of polite opinion and telling 'what I know'.

    Logically, inquiry would first need the right question, no? Otherwise, energy and time is wasted... and who has time to waste? If this is so, room must be given at the start of inquiry to carefully 'arrive' at the right question... ideally one absent of self motive. Why isn't this prevalent? It would seem the ego is impatient to be heard.

    AN EXAMPLE (sorry for the length): If I have a genuine curiosity to explore 'Supernatural Power' how shall I open my inquiry?

    Perhaps @initially: "What does it mean 'Supernatural Powers'?" @response: "Would this be something humans exhibit exclusively, or what humans witness in the environment?" @response: "My question is concerned with what human beings can do." @response: "if there is a phenomena of power that is outside normal observation and known physics why would we limit ourselves to the human aspects only?" @response: "I was thinking it might be too big a field to explore. ...but to be truthful that's not really why. It's because I want to know how to do things others can't do. I might become powerful and respected and famous." @response: "Good to hear your honesty. Hearing this reminds me to be aware of my own self-interests." @response: "So if we are to explore Power beyond normal observation, what do we mean?" @response: "Would it be power that causes work to occur but isn't explained by our laws of physics?" @response: "I guess that would include latent power. Yet, it makes me wonder about the recognition aspects of this power." @response: "Then my question is, to understand this power, what are the possible ways to witness it?" @response: "If we don't want to limit ourselves we should include all our six senses, but is that enough?" @response: "Now we're getting somewhere. To witness such phenomena perhaps we need to be open to sensations from spirit, intuition, heart, soul, and beyond even what we already entertain, beyond the conscious." @response: "How shall we explore sensation and intelligence emanating from spirit, heart, etc.?" *** this is a hypothetical example of how a question morphed into something else due to simple, honest inquiry. I assume it would continue morphing, bringing new intelligence to the exploration until it is sufficiently distilled.***

  • F_Alexander Sep 15, 2011

    Thanks for the info and interaction IONS folks, always nice to see you on the forums. Good luck with the day-to-day business of changing the world :-)

  • Heidi Fuller Sep 15, 2011

    Hello. Thank you for bringing your concern into our discussions. I work with IONS communications & social media team. We might not be ahead of the curve in terms of putting our minimal resources into staff-public engagement, but it doesnt mean our hearts and interests aren't in the right place. And we are moving that needle: we launched a new blog last week, replacing our contributed blog posts with one that speaks from the inside voice of IONS. You will find perspectives from our scientists and staff there, and by all means comment and engage there! We'll monitor it closely and hope to keep our voice responsive to yours. To find the blog, go to noetic.org/blog, and let your friends know about it through your other social networks by using the share button.

  • Marilyn Schlitz, PhD Sep 14, 2011

    Hi there. I do believe it is the intention of IONS core team to ask questions, and offer a forum to listen and reflect. I'm sorry that we don't have more opportunities for direct contact, but we are glad that you are part of the community and have called us out for conversation. We are looking to create more forums where we can have shared conversations on topics that matter to us all. In the meantime, we'd love to know more about what's important to you? How would you like to engage with the noetic sciences community? I embrace the chance to be part of a global learning community with wonder and curiousity. Cheers, Marilyn Schlitz, President/CEO, IONS.

  • capt_infinity Sep 10, 2011

    I certainly share your sentiment. Results cost money and we all know there isn't a lot of that floating around. It is my hypothesis that Universities like to keep a minimal hand in when it comes to the paranormal or metaphysical because the courses are interesting. They don't have to invest a lot of money in a psi department and it fits with the study of psychiatry, psychology, theology and philosophy. Would anyone care to guess how many movies and television shows are produced with a theme directly related to the field?

    What if there were a 5% surcharge added to ticket prices to fund research? Just a thought. The 800 pound gorilla in the corner when it comes to research is, how in hell does anyone make a profit from it? The irony here is the opposite is true. If we all become more spiritual than egotistical we will consume less, fight less and give of ourselves more. Throw in the fact that every current religious belief mankind has, including new age, will be shaken to the core if we quantify spirit. It is possible we may prove there is no human spirit. I don't believe that but as a scientist I cannot close my mind to it.

    So why do it at all? The answer to that lies in the eyes and mind of the first humanoid that looked up at the night sky or gazed into a fire. We will someday know even though we would make faster progress if we were dripping water on a rock. We will spend billions looking for the Higgs Boson but we will only spend pennies looking for the answers to our existence because no one can see an egotistical profit. The spiritual profit is off the chart.

    I believe I can find a lot of the answers. If I had the funds I would do the research. Maybe my hypothesis and phenomena I am experiencing will bear no obvious fruit but, In scientific experimentation, there is no such thing as failure. I see clues like Thomas Edison saw a spark during an experiment that should have not been there. I am witnessing a phenomena that should not be there. Is it also a new force? No but neither were the electromagnetic waves being generated by the Edison effect. The difference was it was now visible. It had always been there. Why not conduct experiments in the ultraviolet and near ultraviolet range in our search into the understanding of psi phenomena? There is enough evidence to do so.

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